Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00421)

Marie, 

I still did not understand what is the point here.

What is the subject I have "avoided"? 

Let me tell you how I work.  If I do not agree too much or disagree too much from a posting, I usually do not comment on that, but go to things which are more stimulating to my own search for truth. 

By the way, what is it, in us, that "gets offended"? 

And --  my intention was not to hurt your feelings.  That is for sure. 


Best regards,


Carlos. 






De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:25:01 -0500

Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World To Carlos on Discerning Things

> Carlos, I appreciate your viewpoint regarding masonry, but why did you change the subject line? Please refrain from putting my name into subject lines, especially when you are then choosing the subject. Your subject line now becomes "To Marie on Discerning Things" and what I had responded to was "Now Carl Does Clarify!". I feel that the subject line you have chosen is meant to demean and offend. You have succeeded.
> 
> Marie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: carlosaveline@terra.com.br
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 7:33 AM
> Subject: Theos-World To Marie on Discerning Things
> 
> 
> Marie,
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Things are complex.
> 
> Although "as a block" Masonry was infiltrated, many individuals in it were still lay chelas, and others were good people in the way to that. 
> 
> Hence, many Masons had an active contact and friendly relations to HPB; hence, HPB always wrote respectfully about Masonry.
> 
> Yet HPB's proposal was the theosophical movement, which is not ritualistic in the LCC/Masonry/Egyptian Rite way, of course. She warned against ceremonialism in no unclear terms. 
> 
> I hope that helps. At least, it is the way I see it. 
> 
> So, distinguishing Masonry from the THeosophical Movement and being conscious that HPB's view of the theosophical movement does not include ritualism does not mean we must think evil of all Masonic Orders. At all. 
> 
> Regards, Carlos. 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Sun, 05 Nov 2006 14:07:30 -0500
> 
> Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World CARL NOW DOES CLARIFY!
> 
> > Carl, Carlos, Friends,
> > 
> > Why then would Blavatsky accept the honorariums from masonic orders? What would be her reasons? Surely, if she did not believe in ritualistic organizations she would have returned the honors with thanks? Or the Masters would have urged her to? Any ideas?
> > 
> > Marie
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: carlosaveline@terra.com.br
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 7:30 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World CARL NOW DOES CLARIFY!
> > 
> > 
> > Carl,
> > 
> > Thanks. 
> > 
> > So there is NOTHING about HPB being an active member of any ritualistic organizations in the 19 century. (See below). Excellent, my brother. Facts are facts and this absence of evidences is a FACT, for sure. 
> > 
> > As to her 'honorary membership' -- take a look at the facsimile copy of HPB's masonic "Adoption" diploma in "HPB Speaks". That is honorary, no doubt. 
> > 
> > Note that HPB denounced in most vehement terms the "ceremonial magic" as a practice for the 19th century. 
> > 
> > She probably could smelll the uselessness, nay, the harmfulness of it in the Aquarius Age... 
> > 
> > Regards, Carlos. 
> > 
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Cópia:
> > 
> > Data:Sat, 04 Nov 2006 14:51:39 -0000
> > 
> > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: HPB and Sat B'hai
> > 
> > > Carlos,
> > > My answers are in capital letters. 
> > > 
> > > Sorry, but whare is the desmonstration that HPB was ever active in 
> > > such a a
> > > movement? NOTHING, AND THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT ANY "HONORARY MEMBERS" 
> > > EITHER.
> > > 
> > > Did she write about that in a letter not forged? What about 
> > > originals of her
> > > statement that she belonged to it? ASK TILLETT, AND THE RESEARCHERS 
> > > IN QC IN LONDON.
> > > 
> > > Did any of her contemporaries (loyal theosophists) write about such 
> > > an active
> > > membership? NO< ANF I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT EITHER.
> > > 
> > > What did Olcott tie about this? SORRY, BUT I DON"T UNDERSTAND THIS 
> > > QUESTION. SAY IT IN OUTHER WORDS, PLEASE.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > And then, Boris de Zirkoff? S. Cranston? Did Boris include anything 
> > > about that
> > > in HPB's Collected Writings? WAY DO ASK THAT TO ME? SORRY, THEY ARE 
> > > BOTH DEAD, IF THEY WASEN'T, YOU SHOULD HAVE ASKED THEM THAT, AND NOT 
> > > ME. I THINK THERE IS A FOTNOT IN BCW, BUT I HAVE TO LOOK TO BE SURE.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I am talking about good old theosophical sources. (You know there is 
> > > a lot of
> > > people talking to HPB and the Masters around the corner or useing 
> > > their names
> > > for their own purposes.) YES, I KNOW THAT VERY MUCH. BUT THE FACT 
> > > THAT THERE ARE THINGS ABOUT HBP AND THE MASTER, THAT YOU DON'T 
> > > HAPPENED TO LIKE, DOESEN'T MAKE THEM UNTRUE OR FALSE.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Carl
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Carl,
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Sorry, but whare is the desmonstration that HPB was ever active in 
> > > such a a movement? 
> > > > 
> > > > Did she write about that in a letter not forged? What about 
> > > originals of her statement that she belonged to it?
> > > > 
> > > > Did any of her contemporaries (loyal theosophists) write about 
> > > such an active membership?
> > > > 
> > > > What did Olcott tie about this?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > And then, Boris de Zirkoff? S. Cranston? Did Boris include 
> > > anything about that in HPB's Collected Writings? 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I am talking about good old theosophical sources. (You know there 
> > > is a lot of people talking to HPB and the Masters around the corner 
> > > or useing their names for their own purposes.) 
> > > > 
> > > > In bona fide, Carlos. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > 
> > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > 
> > > > Cópia:
> > > > 
> > > > Data:Sat, 04 Nov 2006 13:26:42 -0000
> > > > 
> > > > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: HPB and Sat B'hai
> > > > 
> > > > > Carlos,
> > > > > See the "Sat Bhai Code" below. Do you see anything about 
> > > > > any "honorary member" there?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Carl
> > > > > ______________________________________________
> > > > > CODE 
> > > > > OF
> > > > > THE ROYAL ORIENTAL ORDER
> > > > > OF
> > > > > SIKHA (APEX) AND THE SAT BHAI 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > RAHU 
> > > > > REPRESENTATIVE OF ARTIRAM
> > > > > AND OF 
> > > > > THE SAT BHAI OF PRAG 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > THE CODE OF SIKHA (APEX), &c. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > (1) This Oriental Order embraces the Perfect Terrestrial Zone of 
> > > 360 
> > > > > degrees, and the Mystic Zone inclusive of all others, and 
> > > occupies 
> > > > > the highest point of the Masonic fabric. Therefore, while under 
> > > its 
> > > > > benign influence, justice is done to all, and innovations 
> > > > > inconsistent with the grand principles of harmony, and a just 
> > > > > equality, regulated to the varied circumstances of the social 
> > > scale, 
> > > > > are righteously condemned. 
> > > > > (2) This Paramount Order is divided into two, namely, that of 
> > > Sikha 
> > > > > (Apex), the Supreme and Ultimate Mundane, and of the Sat Bhai of 
> > > > > Pryaya. 
> > > > > (3) It is a fundamental principle, that there has been a regular 
> > > > > succession from the East of the whole Order; but more especially 
> > > of 
> > > > > the Sat Bhai, and without this succession, the chief title of 
> > > the 
> > > > > Order to universal respect could not exist. This being so, the 
> > > > > Sponsor by whom the succession has been kept up, and such 
> > > Sponsors 
> > > > > as have been adopted into it, must in their dual capacity, as 
> > > well 
> > > > > as individually, be incapable of deposition or supersession, for 
> > > > > without them, and the possession by the original Sponsor of the 
> > > Red 
> > > > > Ribbon of the Order, there could not possibly be any succession, 
> > > and 
> > > > > consequently there could be no Order. 
> > > > > (4) But, inasmuch as worldly considerations, in their narrow 
> > > sense, 
> > > > > are alien to the spiritual instructions of the Sponsors, they 
> > > have 
> > > > > been permitted to delegate their administrative and executive 
> > > > > powers, in large measure, to the Arch Censors, who are 
> > > accordingly 
> > > > > charged with such duties, while the legislative function, and 
> > > the 
> > > > > veto, personal as well as dual, remains with the former, as an 
> > > > > unalienable inheritance, within the Perfect Circle, as 
> > > transmitted 
> > > > > by the Sat Bhai of Pryaya. 
> > > > > (5) At any moment of supreme peril to the occidental home of the 
> > > > > Order of Sikha (Apex), and of the Sat Bhai, it shall be the 
> > > > > imperative duty of the First Sponsor, who holds the Red Ribbon 
> > > of 
> > > > > the Order, to summon the Arch Arbiter, the Second Sponsor, and 
> > > one 
> > > > > Arch Censor, and in their presence to break the seal of the 
> > > letter 
> > > > > from Prag, that contains the special mandate of the Lord of the 
> > > > > Perfect Circle, and of the Sat Bhai, such mandate being 
> > > absolutely 
> > > > > irresistible, and of effect over the whole of this Code. And 
> > > with 
> > > > > the exception of this one reservation, this Code shall be 
> > > > > irrevocable and incapable of abrogation, and the Sponsors, and 
> > > Arch 
> > > > > Censors are charged with its application to the organisation of 
> > > the 
> > > > > mystic subjects of the Lord of the Perfect Terrestrial Zone. 
> > > > > (6) Within the Perfect Circle, the mystic numbers Nine and Seven 
> > > are 
> > > > > pre-eminent, and while the Lord of the Perfect Circle and the 
> > > > > Sponsors complete the higher number, the lower, under the 
> > > immediate 
> > > > > influence of the Sat Bhai, is subdivided into seven classes, 
> > > namely:-
> > > > > (1). Arch Censors. (2). Arch Couriers. (3). Arch Ministers. (4). 
> > > > > Arch Heralds. (5). Arch Scribes. (6). Arch Auditors. (7). Arch 
> > > > > Mutes. 
> > > > > (7) The Arch Censors, being of the highest dignity of the Sat 
> > > Bhai, 
> > > > > rule the six subordinate classes, and each, in his own 
> > > jurisdiction, 
> > > > > is paramount. In this grade all are equal, and there is no 
> > > priority. 
> > > > > (8) Each Member of each Censorial Section of the six subordinate 
> > > > > classes, shall be known personaily only to his own Censor, and 
> > > to 
> > > > > the Sponsors under the Lord of the Perfect Zone and in the chain 
> > > of 
> > > > > secrecy as well as of responsibility (nccessary for the 
> > > exclusion of 
> > > > > the uninitiated), every second link is locked downwards by 
> > > symbols, 
> > > > > signs and countersignshence, the Arch Censor is only known to 
> > > his 
> > > > > own Arch Couriers, each of the latter to his own Arch Ministers, 
> > > and 
> > > > > so on. 
> > > > > (9) No one can be admitted to the four higher classes of the Sat 
> > > > > Bhai who has not been previously initiated in the Mystery of 
> > > > > Freemasonry; and it is a fundamental decree, that the classes 
> > > Arch 
> > > > > Censor, and Arch Courier are closed against all but Master 
> > > Masons, 
> > > > > and those of higher degree. But the three lower classes are open 
> > > to 
> > > > > both sexes, at the discretion of each Arch Censor, within his 
> > > own 
> > > > > jurisdiction. 
> > > > > (10) In order to preserve the due relation between the various 
> > > > > grades, and to distinguish those of greater exaltation, a system 
> > > of 
> > > > > numbers pervades the whole, so that each individual may be 
> > > clearly 
> > > > > distinguished. But mystic names, conferred by the Sponsors, 
> > > pertain 
> > > > > exclusively to the four higher classes of the Sat Bhai; the 
> > > lower 
> > > > > receiving only ordinary names. These numbers run thus, 
> > > throughout 
> > > > > the combined Order of Sikha (Apex) and the Sat Bhai:- 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sikha (Apex)-the Supreme Mundane 1 
> > > > > ................... 2/1 [In a circle. 
> > > > > Sponsors ................... 2/2 " 
> > > > > ................... 2/3 " 
> > > > > A. Censor ................... 3/1 3/2 3/3 &c. 
> > > > > [In a triangle. 
> > > > > A. Courier .................... 4/1 &c. [In an 
> > > > > ellipse. 
> > > > > A. Minister ................... 5/1 &c. [In a 
> > > > > parallelogram. 
> > > > > A. Herald ................... 6/1 &c. [In a 
> > > > > lozenge. 
> > > > > A. Scribe ................... 7/1 &c. [Plain. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > A. Auditor ................... 8/1 &c. [Plain. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > A. Mute .................... 9/1 &c. [Plain. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Furthermore, to distinguish these grades within their special 
> > > > > Circles, the svmbol of each Arch Censor is prefixed to the 
> > > number of 
> > > > > the inferior grade in the manner shown in plate 1, figure 1. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 4/1 
> > > > > The Arch Courier 1, of Indra. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > But as the A. C. has three symbols, the first is placed before 
> > > the 
> > > > > Couriers, the second before the Ministers, and the third before 
> > > the 
> > > > > Heralds. (11) Each member of each grade nominates seven 
> > > assistants, 
> > > > > and these seven, in like manner, seven probationers; but these 
> > > > > receive only the simple number of their superior, a red line, 
> > > drawn 
> > > > > horizontally through which, indicates an assistant, and a red 
> > > one, 
> > > > > vertically, a probationer. These auxiliaries qualify to become 
> > > Arch 
> > > > > Mutes, but are not considered as within the Perfect Circle, nor 
> > > are 
> > > > > they admitted to its mysteries; they, however, are taught that 
> > > the 
> > > > > mystery came from Pryaya, and are employed to advance the cause 
> > > of 
> > > > > universal harmony, and their authority is a brief prescript 
> > > signed 
> > > > > by the immediate superior, by which their subordination, on the 
> > > > > pledged word, is secured. 
> > > > > (12) The Obligation, on the simple word of honour of the 
> > > candidate, 
> > > > > in every class throughout the combined Order, is accepted as 
> > > > > sufficient. None but men of reputed honour, true to their word, 
> > > are 
> > > > > admitted, and to such men, experience shows, that the pledged 
> > > word 
> > > > > is as inviolable as the solemn oath, the latter as profane, 
> > > being 
> > > > > excluded from the presence of the Lord of the Perfect Circle. 
> > > > > (13) Every member of the Order is bound to be in possession of a 
> > > > > mandate or commission, signed in cipher by the Sponsors, and 
> > > > > endorsed in like manner, by their respective Arch Censors, 
> > > according 
> > > > > to the system of locked links. 
> > > > > (14) The Arch Censors are not necessarily known by their 
> > > personal 
> > > > > names to each other, but they may hold congress, under the 
> > > sanction 
> > > > > of the sponsors, for the discussion of important matters 
> > > connected 
> > > > > with their own jurisdiction, and within its limits; but one 
> > > > > dissencient voice, whether the whole be present or not, shall 
> > > > > invalidate any regulation framed by such congress, and the veto 
> > > of 
> > > > > the Sponsors, individual as well as dual, will have the same 
> > > effect, 
> > > > > the object being to protect the perhaps farther seeing, 
> > > minority, a 
> > > > > policy taught by the history of mankind. 
> > > > > (15) The Sponsors are to be furnished with quarterly reports, 
> > > > > commencing on the first day of each year, by each Censor, who in 
> > > > > like manner will- be furnished with the necessary report, by his 
> > > > > subordinates, and, a return of moneys due and paid, shall be 
> > > > > comprised in these reports, in addition to administrative 
> > > details. 
> > > > > (16) These reports will be framed according to the nature of the 
> > > > > duties of each class thus: The Arch Censors have the 
> > > superintendence 
> > > > > of the Masonic world, from 360 ° to 19 °; the Arch Couriers from 
> > > 18 
> > > > > ° to 11 %#176;;- The Arch Ministers from 10 ° to 4 °; the Arch 
> > > > > Heralds from 3 ° to 1 °. The Arch Scribes are charged with 
> > > fiscal 
> > > > > details, the payment of fees for charters, and commissions to 
> > > the 
> > > > > Arch Illuminator for materials and work supplied, and the fees 
> > > on 
> > > > > admission, and exaltation, as settled, and regulated by the Arch 
> > > > > Censors, the latter being charged with a general supervision. 
> > > The 
> > > > > Arch Auditors and Arch Mutes are charged with the collection of 
> > > > > important information from all sources, public and private. 
> > > > > The Sponsors receive no fees, but whatever is voted to them by 
> > > the 
> > > > > Arch Censors, they may accept. 
> > > > > (17) The Arch Arbiter is the highest judicial functionary, and 
> > > is 
> > > > > known only by his name within the Perfect Circle, but has no 
> > > active 
> > > > > part or responsibility in the Order, and is superseded 
> > > periodically. 
> > > > > (18) In each case when a superior is addressed, he must be 
> > > protected 
> > > > > by his inferior against the expenses of a correspondence which 
> > > must 
> > > > > necessarily be of vast extent, and which would be oppressive to 
> > > the 
> > > > > superior. 
> > > > > (19) The offices of Arch Emissary, Arch Secretary, Arch 
> > > Historian, 
> > > > > Arch Treasurer, Arch Auditor and Arch Illuminator are tentative, 
> > > the 
> > > > > first, fourth, and fifth being extra to the Order. Of their 
> > > > > patronage, the first is in the gift of the Sponsors, the second 
> > > and 
> > > > > sixth of the first Sponsor, or he who holds the Red Ribbon and 
> > > Bell 
> > > > > of the Order, the third, fourth, and fifth, of the Arch Censors. 
> > > > > (20) Among the archives of the Order are many fragments of 
> > > Oriental 
> > > > > antiquity, and these comprise various documents in the ancient 
> > > > > languages of the East. When required to secure in a printed 
> > > form, 
> > > > > the Book of Sikha (Apex), and Legend of the Red Ribbon, the 
> > > first 
> > > > > Sponsor will receive proposals from the Arch Censors with that 
> > > end 
> > > > > in view, one grand object of the Order being to incite to a 
> > > study of 
> > > > > the great truths contained in early Sanskrit literature. 
> > > > > (21) No member of the Order can be superseded or expelled, nor 
> > > shall 
> > > > > he have the power to resign his office (and never his 
> > > membership) 
> > > > > without the final sanction of the Sponsors, under the advice of 
> > > the 
> > > > > Arch Arbiter, or Hindu referee. 
> > > > > (22) The R.O.O. of Sikha and the Sat Bhai is the only system of 
> > > > > Round or Natural Freemasonry. 
> > > > > (23) The signs and passwords of this Order are issued only by 
> > > the 
> > > > > First Sponsor triennially, when they are changed at the Vernal 
> > > > > Equinox. No S.B. can share in the rites and councils of the 
> > > Order 
> > > > > who is not in possession of the signs and passwords of the 
> > > smaller 
> > > > > cycles. But the Illuminated who are in the innermost circle are 
> > > > > exempt from ordinary rules. An Arch Censor may be Illuminated 
> > > > > without preliminary perfection or maturity, and only the 
> > > Illuminated 
> > > > > are eligible to succeed to the death vacancy of a Sponsor. 
> > > > > (24) The great Lotus Seal of the Order is common to the 
> > > > > Jurisdictions of the Order, but its custodian must be elected in 
> > > the 
> > > > > jurisdiction, and subject to the confirmation of the First 
> > > Sponsor. 
> > > > > (25) The Code of Sikha (Apex) is the sole law of the R.O.O., and 
> > > is 
> > > > > immutable. But signs and passwords are tentative for fixed 
> > > periods, 
> > > > > and bye-laws may be permitted tentatively by Rahu, as 
> > > representative 
> > > > > of Artiram. Nothing is valid without the personal and usual lay 
> > > > > signature of the Arch Secretary to verity it. 
> > > > > (26) The Third Sponsor, as a rule, dormant, may, by the 
> > > proclamation 
> > > > > of the First Sponsor, be called into activity and duality with 
> > > him, 
> > > > > whereupon the Second Sponsor becomes for a season or seasons 
> > > > > dormant. No Sponsor can be also an Arch Censor, but he may 
> > > > > temporarily discharge the latter's functions. 
> > > > > (27) The Vernal Equinoxes for changing signs and Passwords are 
> > > in 
> > > > > 1877, 1875, 1878, 1881, 1884, 1887, 1890, &c. 
> > > > > (28) There are three Seals, viz. -The Great Lotus Seal; the Key 
> > > Seal 
> > > > > of the Arch Secretary; and the First Sponsors Privy Seal; There 
> > > are 
> > > > > also the Arch Censors' segmental Seals. 
> > > > > (29) No Ritual can be used which is not stamped with the Great 
> > > Seal 
> > > > > of the Order produced in Ashayana. So also Perfected Sadhanams, 
> > > > > Marks, and Illuminated Sadhanams are invalid without the said 
> > > seal 
> > > > > and the confirmation of the First Sponsor presiding in Ashayana. 
> > > The 
> > > > > Order holds Ghonslas Ashayanas, and Nidams, to which there is no 
> > > > > admission without Mandate or Sadhanam. The latter is ineffectual 
> > > > > unless endorsed by the Arch Secretary in his usual lay 
> > > signature. 
> > > > > (30) No Sat Bhai can resign, but absolute ignoring of O.B., or 
> > > any 
> > > > > notoriously gross act of dishonour involves de facto, loss of 
> > > rank 
> > > > > to be signified by the First Sponsor and Arch Secretary. 
> > > > > (31) There may be more than one jurisdiction. That of the First 
> > > > > Sponsor is the paramount. Each may have its own A. Censors, &c.; 
> > > > > Segments may be exchanged. 
> > > > > (32) There are seven Provinces or an Heptarchy in England, 
> > > Scotland, 
> > > > > and Ireland. Mahanathas rule these by charter under the Great 
> > > Seal 
> > > > > of the Order. The Sponsors form the Court of Appeal of these, 
> > > but no 
> > > > > Sponsor can receive any donative or fee of intrinsic value. In 
> > > their 
> > > > > case gifts must be honorary, such as testimonials on parchment. 
> > > > > (33) 'The Feathers of the Sat Bhai', Archaeological Tracts of 
> > > the 
> > > > > R.O.O. may be under the editorship of any S.B. duly appointed. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > SYMBOLS, ETC. 
> > > > > The symbols, Paroles and countersigns, ancient and modern, of 
> > > the 
> > > > > Royal Oriental Order of Sikha (Apex) and of the Sat Bhai of 
> > > Pryaya. 
> > > > > (1) The Symbols of Sikha (Apex) are:- (1) The Mundane Egg. (2). 
> > > The 
> > > > > Crossed Square within a Perfect circle. (3). The Fruit of the 
> > > Sacred 
> > > > > Lotus. (4). The Harmonic Octave, expressed by its graphic 
> > > expression 
> > > > > of a double shell. (5) The Anga. (6) A swan. (7) A Bull. [plate 
> > > 1, 
> > > > > figures 1,2,3,4,5,6,7]. The Symbol of the Sat Bhai is Seven Grey 
> > > > > Feathers, 2,3, and 2 
> > > > > (2) The symbols of the Dual Sponsors are - (1).The Crescent 
> > > Moon. 
> > > > > (2). The Signs of the Ascending and of the descending Node. Of 
> > > the 
> > > > > first Sponsor-- (1). The Rose. (2) The Kamalata. (3) An Arrow. 
> > > Of 
> > > > > the Second Sponsor--(1). An Unicorn's Horn. (2) The Amaranth. Of 
> > > the 
> > > > > Dormant Sponsor--The Sun in eclipse. 
> > > > > The parole or pass-word to the Sponsors is ......... ; the sign, 
> > > > > touching the......... of the ......... 
> > > > > (3) The Arch Censors are in the third yug symbolised by a Boar 
> > > > > avatar (plate 1, figure 18]. Their distinctive symbols are three 
> > > > > each:- 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1. Indra I A Thunderbolt 2 A Lamp 3. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2. Ganesha 1 An EIephant 2 A Conch 3.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 3. Agni 1 A Flame 2 A Lotus 3.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 4. Surya 1 A Wheel 2 Sunflower 3.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 5. Kartikeya 1 A Peacock 2 A Sword 3.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 6. Kama 1 A Parrot 2 A Bent Bow 3.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 7. Daksha 1 A Dexter Hand 2 An Ear of Wheat
> > > > > 3.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The pass-word to the Arch Censors is......... ; the sign, 
> > > touching 
> > > > > the......... of the right ......... 
> > > > > (4) The Arch Couriers are in the fourth yug, of which the symbol 
> > > is 
> > > > > a lion-headed man. They have one distinctive symbol each placed 
> > > > > under their respective A. Censor's first symbol. The password to 
> > > > > this grade is......... ; the sign, touching the......... with 
> > > > > the......... forefinger. 
> > > > > (5) The Arch Ministers are in the fifth yug, symbolised by two 
> > > > > interlaced triangles. They have one distinctive symbol each, 
> > > placed 
> > > > > under their respective A. Censor's second symbol. The password 
> > > to 
> > > > > this grade is......... ; the sign, touching the......... of 
> > > > > the......... 
> > > > > (6) The Arch Heralds are in the sixth yug, for which the symbol 
> > > is 
> > > > > an antique crown. They have one distinctive symbol each, placed 
> > > > > under their respective A. Censor's third symbol. The password to 
> > > > > this grade is......... the sign, the palms......... 
> > > > > (7) The Arch Scribes are in the seventh yug. There are no 
> > > symbols in 
> > > > > this grade, but the A. Ss. have distinctive numbers in the 
> > > Nagara 
> > > > > character. Pass-word.......... No sign. 
> > > > > (8) The Arch Auditors are in the eighth yug. They have each a 
> > > > > Devanagri letter before their names, under the Minister's 
> > > symbol. No 
> > > > > password. No sign. 
> > > > > (9) The Arch Mutes are in the ninth yug: They have each a letter 
> > > in 
> > > > > the Devanagri character before their names and under the 
> > > Herald's 
> > > > > symbol. No pass-word. No sign. 
> > > > > Nomenclature of the Arch Grades, under the Lord of the Perfect 
> > > Zone, 
> > > > > 360 °:- 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1 Sponsor.............. Rahu 
> > > > > 2 Sponsor.............. Ketu 
> > > > > 3 Kamadyam......... [Dormant] 
> > > > > 1 Arch Censor Indra 1 Arch Minister
> > > > > Dhanus 
> > > > > 2 " " Ganesha 2 " "
> > > > > Mesha 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 3 " " Agni 3 " "
> > > > > Vrisha 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 4 " " Surya 4 " " Simha
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 5 " " Kartikeya 5 " "
> > > > > Makara 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 6 " " Kama 6 " " Kumba
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 7 " " Daksha 7 " "
> > > > > Karkata 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1 Arch Courier Kuvera 1 Arch Herald
> > > > > Sanjaya 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2 " " Vira Badra 2 " "
> > > > > Heri 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 3 " " Bhairava 3 " "
> > > > > Rama 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 4 " " Varuna 4 " "
> > > > > Nareda 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 5 " " Yama 5 " "
> > > > > Agastya 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 6 " " Garuda 6 " " Hotri
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 7 " " Aruna 7 " "
> > > > > Petri 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1 Arch Scribe Pravaha 1 Arch Auditor Rad
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2 " " Avaha 2 " " Tara
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 3 " " Udraha 3 " "
> > > > > Nadiyan 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 4 " " Samkaha 4 " "
> > > > > Ankhen 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 5 " " Vivaha 5 " " Kan
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 6 " " Parivaha 6 " "
> > > > > Udaka 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 7 " " Nivaha 7 " " Vayu 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1 Arch Mute Kalga fem. Narangi 
> > > > > 2 " " Pipat " Angur 
> > > > > 3 " " Bat " Zaitun 
> > > > > 4 " " Champa " Seb 
> > > > > 5 " " Tulasi " Angir 
> > > > > 6 " " Singarhar " Badan 
> > > > > 7 " " Soma " Anar 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > (10) Oriental garments being disused, except the Grey Choga and 
> > > Cap, 
> > > > > the only mark of membership is a red silk cord of three strands, 
> > > > > round the neck. 
> > > > > The general pass-word is......... The colours of the Order are 
> > > Red, 
> > > > > Blue, White; those of Sponsors, Red, Blue, Yellow; and of 
> > > Segments, 
> > > > > the Prismatic. 
> > > > > MONETARY REGULATIONS 
> > > > > Under the supervision of the Arch Censors, Arch Treasurer, and 
> > > Arch 
> > > > > Scribes, and extra to the Order. 
> > > > > (1) A reserve fund for charity, and the use of the intelligence 
> > > > > department, is to be formed. 
> > > > > (2) The Sponsors having renounced all Claim on the funds of the 
> > > > > Order, they may accept donations as offerings to Sikha (Apex) 
> > > > > without injury to the spiritual element, if voluntarily, and 
> > > > > unconditionally made by the Arch Censors. 
> > > > > (3) The Arch Censors and their subordinates are entitled to 
> > > > > remuneration for actual work done. The Arch Censors' regulations 
> > > > > must be accepted, if promulgated by the Seven in Congress, and 
> > > > > unanimous. 
> > > > > 4) The Arch Secretary is entitled to recompense for time and 
> > > outlay. 
> > > > > (5) The Arch Illuminator is entitled to recompense for time and 
> > > > > outlay, in preparing charters or commissions, &c. His charges 
> > > have 
> > > > > been allowed. For a parchment charter, if required illuminated, 
> > > one 
> > > > > guinea; for a prescript or mandate, two shillings and sixpence; 
> > > and 
> > > > > for symbols of Sponsors and Censors, each one shilling. 
> > > > > (6) The Arch Treasurer is entitled to a percentage on the funds, 
> > > the 
> > > > > same to be fixed by the Arch Censors in Congress. 
> > > > > (7) The other Arch Officers receive remuneration according to 
> > > duties 
> > > > > performed, or expenses incurred. 
> > > > > (8) The first Occidental Arch Censors, under the dispensation of 
> > > the 
> > > > > Lord of the Perfect Zone, have entered the Circle free; but 
> > > their 
> > > > > successors, and those of the grades under their jurisdiction, 
> > > are 
> > > > > required to pay the following fees to the Arch Treasurer for the 
> > > > > Arch Censors:- 
> > > > > £ s. d. £ s. d.
> > > > > 
> > > > > A. Mute " " A. Auditor " "
> > > > > 
> > > > > A. Scribe " " A. Herald "
> > > > > " 
> > > > > A. Minister " " A. Courier "
> > > > > " 
> > > > > A. Censor £ " " 
> > > > > These fees may be regulated from time to time. 
> > > > > To obviate the inconvenience of disclosing the titles of the 
> > > Order 
> > > > > to the outer world, the postal address will be 'Secretary (or 
> > > other) 
> > > > > of the Royal Oriental S. B. Order.' 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Carl, Tillett, Friends, 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > OK. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > So HPB was an "honorary member" of the Sat Bhai, and this, as 
> > > > > early as 1877.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Honorary member is no active member; it means that a homage 
> > > was 
> > > > > made to her. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Not the only one -- as she had a diploma from "Adoption 
> > > Masonry", 
> > > > > too. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Honorary titles.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Best regards, Carlos. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Cópia:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Data:Sat, 4 Nov 2006 07:12:20 +1100 (EST)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Assunto:Theos-World HPB and Sat B'hai
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > In April, 1878, HPB and Colonel Olcott discussed this 
> > > > > possibility, and
> > > > > > > concluded that it would serve to restore "the vital element 
> > > of 
> > > > > Oriental
> > > > > > > Mysticism" to the higher degrees. But there were objections 
> > > from 
> > > > > Indian
> > > > > > > members of the TS, and the scheme was abandoned. However, 
> > > both 
> > > > > HPB and
> > > > > > > Olcott were made Honorary Members of the Sat B'hai, on 
> > > August 9, 
> > > > > 1877. 
> > > > > > > HPB was made a member of the sixth degree, level one, Arch 
> > > > > Auditor; the
> > > > > > > name of this degree and level was Rad, and, like the fifth 
> > > and 
> > > > > seventh
> > > > > > > degrees, was open both non-Masons and to women. HSO was made 
> > > a 
> > > > > member of
> > > > > > > the second degree, sixth level. Arch Courier; the name of 
> > > this 
> > > > > degree was
> > > > > > > Garuda, and it was open only to Master Masons (as was the 
> > > first 
> > > > > degree). 
> > > > > > > In Sat B'hai the first degree was the highest, and the 
> > > seventh 
> > > > > the lowest.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The Royal Oriental Order of Sikha (Apex) and the Sat B'hai 
> > > seems 
> > > > > to have
> > > > > > > been founded by an Anglo-Indian, Captain James Henry 
> > > Lawrence 
> > > > > Archer of
> > > > > > > the Indian Army, but the organization of the Order was 
> > > largely 
> > > > > of the work
> > > > > > > of Kenneth Robert Henderson Mackenzie (1833-86), author of 
> > > > > the "Royal
> > > > > > > Masonic Cyclopaedia" (1877), and a member of the TS. The 
> > > first 
> > > > > public
> > > > > > > statements about the Order appeared in correspondence 
> > > in "The 
> > > > > Freemason"
> > > > > > > in early 1871, however although great claims were made for 
> > > its 
> > > > > antiquity
> > > > > > > and importance, and despite Mackenzie's efforts to establish 
> > > it 
> > > > > as a
> > > > > > > working organization, it does not seem to have moved much 
> > > beyond 
> > > > > being a
> > > > > > > plan. By January, 1879, Mackenzie had concluded that the 
> > > Order 
> > > > > had
> > > > > > > finished.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The Sat B'hai was never adopted for use within the TS.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Information on the membership of HPB and HSO in Sat B'hai 
> > > comes 
> > > > > from the
> > > > > > > archives of the Order which were (and, I believe, still are) 
> > > in 
> > > > > the Yarker
> > > > > > > archives in London, where I had access to them.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Dr Gregory Tillett
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente 
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> > > > > > > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
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> > > > > 
> > > +_u=carlosaveline&_l=1,1162584750.900794.6252.balcomo.hst.terra.com.b
> > > > > r,5563,Des15,Des15
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> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
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