Theos-Talk Archives (October 2006 Message tt00481)

Adelasie,

Greetings. 


You say:

"Is it possible that applying discernment in our daily lives has to do 
with our own behavior, not that of others?"

Yes, mainly with our own behaviour;  but that does not deny the open dialogue among people,  or the defence of the founders of the movement against traitors, slanderers and professional liars of various kinds.  I hope you agree with that. 


Adelasie, you say below it is not good to criticize anyone.  This is sure the reason why you are NOT criticizinge me!!! Not even in between the lines and in a shy style!  

Thanks. Yet HPB and Jesus in the New Testament and St. Francis of Assisi and every messenger minor or greater, as every aspirant, did question dogmas, "spiritual" bureaucracies and the like!

You know Jesus was rather a warrior. An un comfortable one, like many of his dialogues alonge the centuries. 

And -- do you happen to know why thousands of Buddhists were killed by the Noble Hindus in India in the first centuries after Buddha?  They were uncomfortable...

Regards,   Carlos. 


De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Mon, 30 Oct 2006 07:10:08 -0800

Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Re: Theosophy as Real Life

> Carlos,
> 
> Indeed it is important to live theosophy fully. The philosophy 
> provides a model of a way of life, and the founders provided the 
> example of how to live it. 
> 
> > It would be wrong to ignore the example given by HPB of using both 
> > brain hemispheres and combining 'viveka', discernment, with devotion 
> > and higher intuition. 
> 
> Is it possible that applying discernment in our daily lives has to do 
> with our own behavior, not that of others? Clearly we need to notice 
> what is going on around us. But we are told also not to judge. In so 
> many situations in life when we see someone do something, for 
> instance, that we think is wrong, we later find out there was another 
> dimension to the situation that would suggest another evaluation. We 
> are not omniscient We can speak of well-known bad guys, Hitler, 
> Stalin, and yet, if we look from a historical perspective, we see 
> that what those people did served another purpose in the bigger 
> picture. If we believe in Karma, we know that what happens is what 
> has to happen, the necessary restoration of balance after Nature's 
> Law has been broken. The crux comes when we are trying to decide how 
> to behave. Our discernment allows us to see what sort of behavior is 
> in alignment with our ideals. It helps us to make decisions. If there 
> were no shadows, there would be no light, at least on the material 
> plane.
> > 
> > Her pedagogy is not limited to "high initiates". It is public. It is
> > for the public. It is available to each and all of us. 
> 
> Indeed it is, and we are extremely fortunate in that. But I do not 
> know of anywhere in the writings of HPB, or in the example of her 
> life, or in the writings or example of WQJ or any of the great 
> teachers humanity has been privileged to receive, where it is stated 
> that it is good to criticize anyone, one's fellow students in 
> particular. In general the student is councilled to avoid unecessary 
> talk about others in general. 
> > 
> > The Catholic priests (Liberal or otherwise) also say that the 
> > universal brotherhood and other teachings are "impossible to live" --
> > hence they use rituals and other top-down structures to control the 
> > masses.
> 
> I wonder about the advisability of criticizing institutions too. HPB 
> had the advantage of instruction from the Masters, who are much wiser 
> and much more aware than I am. She also had a job to do, guided by 
> Their omniscience, to help break the stranglehold of organized 
> religion on humanity. We may as well assume that job has been done. 
> Why antagonize other seekers? If a student recognizes limitations in 
> an institution, isn't it because he has been a part of such an 
> institution and found the cracks for himself? Why not provide an 
> example of something better for others who are still caught in the 
> web? Why criticize them for their ignorance? Why not respect their 
> search, as we want ours to be respected? 
> > 
> > Take care and make sure you do not say that "living Theosophy" 
> > or "using both discernment and intuitiion" is but for high 
> > initiates -- for thus starts hypocrisy which leads to priesthood. 
> 
> Saying such a thing would certainly serve no purpose. We have a 
> tremendous opportunity, and a tremendous responsibility, in this 
> potent cycle, to make the words of theosophical teachings a living 
> reality in our daily lives. Every moment is pregnant with 
> possibilities as we tread the path, endeavoring to be one with our 
> ideals in every thought, word, and deed. And indeed, it is in the 
> trying that the value lies. One successful effort is worth more than 
> a thousand failures. lt is the sincere effort to do the right thing 
> that connects us with the higher forces and makes us a part of the 
> Light, instead of a part of the shadow. 
> > 
> > There is a false humbleness in saying -- "we are not high 
> > initiates, we cannot compare ourselves with HPB; therefore we do 
> > not need to live Theosophy". 
> 
> Humility is an interesting study. Humility is not self-effacing 
> necessarily. It is knowing who we are and why we are here and 
> behaving accordingly with dignity and integrity. We don't know where 
> we are in the hierarchy of humanity, but we always know that there 
> are Those above and those below. We aspire to follow the example set 
> by the "Elders," and we try to lend a helping hand to those who 
> follow. It is an endless stream. Everyone has Those above in 
> development and those below in development. We cannot evaluate 
> anyone's status, but we can recognize that it is not a matter of 
> worth. It is just a matter of consciousness. We don't expect children 
> in kindergarten to understand calculus, but we don't consider them 
> lesser than we are if they don't. (assuming we understand calculus, 
> whatever that is :)
> > 
> > If one can't live Theosophy and can't combine diversity and unity,
> > what's the use of Theosophy? It is a facade for something 
> > else? Is it a facade for some rite or ritual in a " stone Temple"?
> 
> Perhaps it is useful here to mention the difference between 
> personality and principle. Our faculty of discernment is well applied 
> when focussed on principle, on the impersonal. It is not so well 
> applied when focussed on the personal. We are well advised to apply 
> discernment to the behavior, but not to the person. We simply do not 
> and cannot know the mystery of another human being. We all know this. 
> Who really knows us? Only we have that job. And if we discern 
> bahavior that does not fit with out ideals, what else can we feel but 
> compassion for another one of our brother or sisters who may be 
> creating future suffering for him or her self? There but for the 
> Grace of God go I?
> > 
> > HPB wrote the only real temple is within one's heart and mind, and 
> > outer temples are but a lack of respect for the SACRED. As she 
> > wrote that, she was quoting the New Testament, I Corinthians. (See 
> > Collected Writings, XI, pp.80-81.)
> 
> Yes, and isn't the altar in theTemple within our own heart the best 
> place to lay all the troubles, the problems, the fears, and the 
> judgements, so they can be dealt with by Those who know how? Those 
> who are in truth and reality our own Higher Selves?
> > 
> > 
> > I hope you have something to say abut the above ideas. 
> 
> I sure did!
> 
> Adelasie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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