Theos-Talk Archives (October 2006 Message tt00313)

Hi Jake,
My answer is simple. Homosexuals have spent too many incarnations in "female" bodies, so there is a transitional stage or life where the female psyche is born into a male body.  As far as sexual activity is concerned, it is just that, actively sexual.  There comes a life when the sexual energy is more or less expended, learning from experience that sex is simply an attachment to form or desire, and usually ends in some form of suffering.

Once we are in control of our sexual energy and it is not in control of us, sex then becomes a means to an end, and not an end in itself. In exactly the same way we learn to control our thoughts and they stop controlling us.   Once we are a world unto ourselves, that is, we control our every thought,desire and action, we are ready to start on the path proper.  Do the masters have sex?  I doubt that there is even a need for it as it has long ago been overcome.  The sexual energy remains but it is transmuted (somehow) into mental energy.  The true doctrine of Tantra.  HPB loved Morya but not in a sexual way.

If society took this view there would be no disgust at the idea of homosexual or lesbian love. Religion has ostracised these people and they have become the scapegoats for persecution against what is considered the "norm".   I doubt very much whether the creators care less how the sex act is performed providing it is done lovingly, it is simply an exchange of energy.

Cass
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Jaqua <proto37@yahoo.com>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Cc: carlosaveline@terra.com.br
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 2:05:30 AM
Subject: Theos-World A Queer Theosophical Question









  


    
            A Personal Opinion on a Very Queer Question



I've been wanting to write something on this

for a while, so think I will do so. It could be

called "esoteric," I think.  So, if you aren't

"esoteric," don't worry about it.



Nobody writes about homosexuals in relation 

to theosophy, because it is far too dangerous 

to do so, Homosexuals being a very large 

"vested interest."  Does Theosophy have any 

specific teachings in regard to them?  No.  

Nothing is said anywhere in the primary literature.  

It is "2 Lo 2 go," and brings elevated concepts 

down into the muck of lower life - so this 

Post is personal opinion.  Buddhism has a 

precept agains "improper sexual action," and 

the Dalai Lama condemned oral sex in an "Out" 

magazine interview (Feb-March, 1994) It is 

an important issue, and affects the whole 

movement, mostly at its more esoteric level 

- which where the real life of the Theosophical 

Movement comes from.  Throughout original 

Theosophical literature there is the undercurrent 

of the necessity of living a clean and moral 

life.  In the 19th century any reference to 

morality and homosexuals was unnecessary, for 

one thing, as it was common accepted truth 

that it was immoral.  Today that is not the 

case and the gay lifestyle and politics is almost 

a religion.  The militant gay holds his gay 

status more important than religion, politics 

or anything else (certainly more important 

than Theosophy!)  The question could be ignored 

in the 19th century, but can it today?



Why is this all important to Theosophy?  

In my opinion because: (1) any group that 

has a significant number of openly homosexuals 

in it is DONE FOR, as far as the genuine 

normal population being attracted.  (I remember 

the Buddhist event I went too, with the two 

gay guys greeting each other with squeals, 

and hugs.)  (2) The homosexual, unless he 

can rise above or indifferent to it, has 

his two higher principles paralyzed.  It is 

incompatible with any type of Theosophical 

"Inner Group."  The probationary chela "Fern" 

in the MLs is said to have had his two higher 

principles paralyzed - from Jesuit training 

when he was young.  (MLs, p. 330, TUP)  It's 

the same thing, but from a different source.  

Lower manas has to be open to higher manas 

and buddhi, and this requires generally a basic 

purity in lower manas and the lower self, and 

in sex matters this means celibacy or heterosexuality

- 

which are in tune with healthy human psychology 

and Mother Nature, homosexuality is not.  (3)  

I think possibly one could say that homosexuals 

have Wrecked the whole theosophical movment.  

It might be possibly to breakdown the major 

splits in Theosophical groups of the gays 

vs. the straights, and the types of philosophies 

they are inclined to accept.  One can certainly 

find a basis for this in Leadbeater-based 

Neo-Theosophy at Adyar VS. Original Theosophy 

at ULT and Point Loma.  (Tingley was very 

anti-homosexual, and Leadbeater and Wedgewood, 

et. al. and their Liberal Catholic Church, 

masonry and sex-teachings were homosexuals 

and sympathizers. )



I remember reading an account 

somewhere that Blavatsky had a deprecatory 

nick-name for Leadbeater in reference to 

his homosexuality (or pedophilia) - but can't 

find the source.  Purucker refered to homosexuals 

somewhere, I believe, as an abnormality or 

something to be pitied, sometimes an 

evolutionary throw-back.  



I joined an esoteric group about 30 

years ago, and the Teacher's idea was that 

the only way to go if one was really Serious, 

was to be celibate.  This isn't easy, wrecked 

life with the girlfriend, and set me to mulling 

occassionally over the whole sex-question for 

the last 30+ years.  The results of which I 

think I got a lot of answers,  some answers I 

have to think were "shown" to me in one way 

or another, because I don't see how I could 

come up with the answers on my own.  Some 

general observations follow.



How does a person become a homosexual?  

Is it something they are born with?  I 

think at least half are born with the skandas 

or karmic tendency, which is something they 

can't help.  Where does this come from?  Its 

the karmic result of previous degeneracy, 

for one source, I think.  The hedonist becomes 

jaded and looks for more and more extremes 

for kicks.  Just normal sex doesn't work 

anymore and they fool their minds and experiment 

more and more.  Several hollywood stars come 

to mind - who could have any woman or man 

they wanted - but became homosexuals.  Also, 

people have all and any type of thoughts, 

at least occassionally, and if in unhealthy 

passivity.  Naive persons who have an occassional 

queer thought, become obesessed with the idea 

that they are queer, when it should just be 

ignored or forced out.  People also get 

obssessed.  A male obsessed with a female 

bhut (dead "shell" of someone who died early), 

can become or urged by it to become queer, 

and vice-versa.  I know one case, I think, 

of a young woman whose drug-addicted father 

died, and then she became queer.  What modern 

psychologist would even consider such a thing!   

Personally, I believe there is no such thing 

in nature as a homosexual, but only arising 

from various human-imposed causes.



Purucker says somewhere that the more 

one is attracted to the opposite sex (and 

acts on it), the more he becomes like the 

opposite sex.  This is how it is determined 

if one is reincarnated as a male or female.  

The hedonist gradually becomes like the 

opposite sex, so the most "manly" or "womanly" 

person is the celibate.  If one gradually, 

even in a normal lifestyle becomes and 

reincarnates as the opposite sex, then there 

must be a certain sort of "neutral point" 

that is reached, and a person is born in a 

male or female body, but is actually under-sexed 

and "neutral" about sex more than most persons.  

This could be a blessing, but the more asexual 

person - especially nowdays - is convinced 

by various propaganda that he is actually 

homo-sexual instead of moreso neutral-sexual.  

(You Have to be a sex-machine one way or 

another! says modern psychology and media!)  

How may young confused people who don't know 

what to do with all the errant thoughts 

put in their heads (put there by gay propaganda) 

are convinced they are "gay" and Ruin their 

whole lives - when they might have lived a 

relatively normal life otherwise and even 

cured themselves!!  Believing the Politically 

Correct propaganda that being a homosexual 

is "just another healthy choice" - how many 

100,000 young people have irrevocably entered 

a lifestyle in which they are innerly-tortued 

for life, many committing suicide directly 

or in other ways???



In the world in general the homosexuals 

are a "vested interest."  Speak out in a 

significant way about the suicidal immorality 

of Society endorsing homosexual lifestyle, and 

see what happens to you.  A lot are 

intelligent people, and a middle-class phenomenom, 

and "gays" work together as interest groups.  

They permeate the social-work system, the 

medical system, and the police departments.  

(Try being helpless in a hospital, when the 

"gay-network" there of a couple hundred finds 

out that you are a loathe-some "homo-phob." 

[or "homo-disgusto" ])  People become irrational 

when a "hot-spot" is poked.  We all have them.  

Some psychological complex where we are 

vulnerable and out of harmony with ourselves

and nature, and when it is "poked" we feel 

raped.  "Passion-crimes" are committed when 

people's hot-spots get poked.  



So, is this a call for a pogrom 

on homosexuals.  No, of course not.  Most are 

decent people, and try to be so (excepting 

the prison-types. )  There is nothing in Theosophy 

or Buddhism that says sick people can't join, 

as long as they don't wreck things.  'And we 

are most ALL sick in one form or another.  

One's open-mindedness and compassion is used 

against oneself and theosophy, as often as 

for it.   But we are in the truth business 

- not self-destructive make-believe for the 

sake of social harmony, or social consequences 

of knowing the real truth - for ourselves 

at least.



- jake j.



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