Theos-Talk Archives (September 2006 Message tt00513)

Carlos - I  made some comments in caps after yours below.

Ken

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Ken,

> Speaking of 'Tibetan Buddhism', though, I tend to always look 
carefully at "what kind of Tibetan" we are talking about.

WELL, DISCERNING 'WHAT KIND' IS ALWAYS AN IMPORTANT ENDEAVOR, 
WHETHER OF BUDDHISTS, CHRISTIANS, HINDUS OR EVEN THEOSOPHISTS -- 
THOUGH I FIND IT IS ALWAYS A CHALLENGE TO MAINTAIN DISCERNMENT 
WITHOUT BEING JUDGEMENTAL ! 
> 
> I believe, Ken, the Tibetan monks you are talking about are OK; 
yet one must know that there are "tibetans and tibetans" --  in 
these days as in the old days. 

YES...AND IT IS MORE COMPLEX THAN ONE MIGHT THINK EVEN TODAY...
> 
> One must beware of idealizations. They tend to result in occult 
traps. 

PURUCKER ALWAYS WARNED STUDENTS OF 'ENTIFYING ABSTRACTIONS' AND OF 
FALLING INTO 'BIBLIOLATRY' OR AS IN THE WELL KNOWN JAPANESE ZEN 
IMAGE OF MISTAING THE FINGER POINTING AT THE MOON FOR THE MOON 
ITSELF. HAVE NOT THOSE SELF-LABELED 'FUNDAMENTALISTS' FALLEN INTO 
THIS EXTERNALIZATION OF MISTAKING THE METAPHOR OR EVEN INTELLECTUAL 
ABSTRACTION FOR THE 'THING ITSELF'? SO IN THIS SENSE I WOULD AGREE 
IT IS IMPORTANT 'TO BE 'AWARE' OF IDEALIZATIONS' IF I MIGHT CHANGE 
YOUR STATEMENT A LITTLE.

 
> Several succeeding Dalai Lamas have been most likely assassinated, 
one after the other, by high lamas  in the highest possible acts of  
treason, during their young age,  along  19th century, as Geoffrey 
Barborka rightly suggests in his excellent book "HPB, Tibet and 
Tulku" (I can give the pages). 


YES IT APPEARS THAT THE FACT THAT NONE OF THE DALAI LAMAS OF THE 
19TH CENTURY - 9-10-11-12 - MADE IT TO AN AGE WHERE THEY WERE 
ENTHRONED AND HAD ANY SAY IN AFFAIRS WAS NO ACCIDENT. THE REGENTS 
WERE EXTREMELY CORRUPT DURING THIS TIME. ADDITIONALLY THE PANCHEN 
LAMA LIVING DURING BLAVATSKY'S TIME DIES SUDDENLY IN 1881 OF SMALL 
POX. ZEMEY RINPOCHE IN HIS 'YELLOW BOOK' GIVES RESPONSIBILITY AND 
CREDIT TO THE SO CALLED GELUGPA 'PROTECTOR DEITY' SHUGDEN FOR THE 
DEMISE OF THIS PANCHEN LAMA (HE WAS TOO NON-SECTARIAN) ! FOR MORE 
INFORMATION SEE THE TIBETAN GOVERNMENT WEBPAGE 
http://www.tibet.com/dholgyal/index.html . THE CURRENT DALAI LAMA 
HAS MADE GREAT EFFORT TO DISPEL AND SUBDUE THIS VERY NEGATIVE AND 
FANATICAL ELEMENT. FOLLOWERS OF THIS SECT ASSASINATED THE HEAD OF 
THE DIALECTICAL SCHOOL, LOBSANG GYATSO, IN DHARAMSALA IN THE LATE 
1990'S. 
> 
> But the right kind of  Buddhist Tibetan Philosophy has a lot in 
common with Esoteric Philosophy, no doubt.  

THERE IS REALLY NO SUCH LABEL 'BUDDHIST TIBETAN PHILOSOPHY' - THERE 
IS 'VAJRAYANA BUDDHISM' WHICH HISTORICALLY DEVELOPED IN INDIA, BUT 
EXTENDED TO INDONESIA AT BORO BODUR AND WHAT IS NOW MYANMAR, SRI 
LANKA ETC. THEN IN MORE RECENT TIMES TIBET, MONGOLIA AND CHINA AND 
NOW DISPERSED AROUND THE GLOBE. WITHIN VAJRAYANA IS CONTAINED ALL 
THE STUDY OF MAHAYANA AND HINAYANA. ETC..............CERTAINLY 
THEOSOHISTS SHOULD AT LEAST FOLLOW BLAVATSKY'S LEAD AND STUDY 
NAGARJUNA AND TSONG KHAPA AS WELL AS THE CHAN AND ZEN ELEMENTS 
IN 'THE VOICE FO THE SILENCE'.


> I guess Pasadena TS has been rather near to some authentic lines 
of Buddhist Thought and this is good for the theosophical movement 
as a whole. 

PASADENA TS ? I DO NOT KNOW OF ANY PARTICULAR BUDDHIST LINES OF 
THOUGHT THERE. IT IS CERTAINLY TRUE THAT DEPURUCKER AT POINT LOMA IN 
HIS 'ESOTERIC TEACHINGS' THOROUGHLY 'MAHAYANIZED' THE ETHICS AND 
VIEW IN THESE STUDIES GIVING MUCH EMPHASIS TO THE PARAMITAS, NOBLE 
EIGHT FOLD PATH, CONCEPTS OF EMPTINESS ETC. QUOTING EXTENSIVELY FROM 
BUDDHIST SUTRAS, DT SUZUKI, PRAJNA PARAMITA LITERATURE AVAIALBE THEN 
ETC. ESPECIALLY IN VOL. 1,2 AND 3 ( THESE ARE AVAILABLE FROM POINT 
LOMA PUBLICATIONS WWW.WISDOMTRADITIONS.COM )



MARK JAQUA IS QUITE CORRECT TO MAKE SOME CLARIFICATION IN THE 
HISTORY, BUT NOT MERE EXTERNAL HISTORICAL EVENTS BUT QUALITATIVE 
DIFFERENCES IN THOSE [EMMETT/CARMEN SMALL, GORDON PLUMMER, 
IVERSON/HELEN HARRIS, ELSIE/HARRY BENJAMIN, DEZIRKOFF, GEOFFREY/ILA 
BARBORKA, HELEN TODD, CARDINAL LEGROS, JAN VENEMA, JUDITH TYBERG, 
JOHN PRENTICE - TO MENTION THOSE KNOWN THROUGH THEIR WRITINGS AND 
THEOSOPHICAL WORK] WHO DID NOT ENSHRINE ANY NEED IN AN 'EXTERNAL 
LEADER' IN THE LATE 1940'S. THEIR CREATIVE THEOSOPHIC IMPULSE SPEAKS 
FOR ITSELF !


> 
> And there is no doubt that the yearly sun's cycle is initiatory. 
> 
> Commentaries on that will be welcome.

I AM WORKING ON THIS AND WILL HAVE SOMETHING IN A COUPLE MORE WEEKS.


> 
> Regards,  Carlos.  
> 
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