Theos-Talk Archives (August 2006 Message tt00084)

Daniel,

Thanks. 

1) K. Paul Johnson said in Theos-talk that he does not considers himself a Theosophist.  I accepted his word. Shouldn't I?  But this, of course, is not the point. This is your habit of discussing words in a superficial way-- palying with words. 

2) Materialistic is not Historical, as History can be seen at the various levels of consciousness, including the higher ones.   As KPJ does not see the "metaphysical emotions" or perceptions, so to day, involved in Theosophy, his perception is based in outer facts, which I called materialistic. 

3) Besides playing with words, I see no statement in you message below. 


Best regards anyway,    Carlos. 


De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:16:37 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Carlos on the "ins" and "outs" of the Theosophical Movement

> Carlos,
> 
> You write:
> 
> "Paul Johnson is not interested in real, transcendental Theosophy."
> 
> How do you know that? Did Johnson tell you that? Did Johnson write 
> this somewhere?
> 
> Actually I had the impression he WAS interested in "real,
> transcendental Theosophy." I could be wrong but maybe you are!! 
> 
> Then Carlos take this statement of yours:
> 
> "As so many others, Johnson thought he could 'explain' HPB 
> and 'reveal' the Masters from a purely materialistic viewpoint."
> 
> I'm curious Carlos, have you read ANY of Johnson's books so you 
> would really be in A POSITION to know what "Johnson thought".
> 
> I do think Johnson tried to approach these issues from a historical 
> point of view since HPB was a real historical figure and the claim 
> is made that the Masters are real physical historical people. 
> 
> So I guess you could say he had "a purely materialistic viewpoint". 
> I would prefer to say he wrote "from a historical viewpoint."
> 
> Again you write:
> 
> "The question is: who, in the theosophical movement, started using 
> P. J. inside the movement, as if his points of view could 
> be 'interesting' to students of esoteric philosophy?
> 
> "He himself reveals it, in his frank writings to Theos-talk in 
> February 2006. It was John Algeo, and youself, besides your alter 
> ego and false identity 'David Green', who opened, or half-opened, 
> the movement doors to Paul Johnson."
> 
> Well are you assuming Johnson was "outside" the Theosophical 
> Movement and WE had to start using PJ inside the movement??? 
> 
> I believe he was a member of the Pasadena TS, had read the Secret 
> Doctrine, had given talks at Theosophical lodges. So WHO ARE YOU to 
> say he was not a Theosophist and therefore "outside" the movement.
> 
> Jesus save us!!
> 
> Well golly since he wrote about HPB and her Masters I ASSUMED 
> that "his points of view could be 'interesting' to students of 
> esoteric philosophy".
> 
> I assume Dr. Algeo did to.
> 
> As to someone being inside or outside what you call "the 
> Theosophical Movement", I could care less.
> 
> Was I "inside" the Theosophical Movement when I wrote my critique of 
> Paul Johnson's books? Am I "inside" the Theosophical Movement now?
> Is my website "inside" or "outside" the Theosophical Movement?
> 
> Frankly I could care less and frankly I could care even less what 
> your opinion may or may not be.
> 
> So when you write about "opened, or half-opened, the movement doors 
> to Paul Johnson", you are assuming that he was outside the movement 
> and you are also assuming that I was inside the movement or that I 
> somehow had the power to open the doors.
> 
> I deal with people all the time in my correspondence, who go to my 
> website, who have read some of my books, etc. etc.
> 
> I simply don't care if they are a member of any Theosophical group 
> or organization or association. Are they in or out of the Movement?
> Don't really care...don't really know.
> 
> Walter Carrithers was never a member of any of the Theosophical 
> organizations and he didn't care to be and from what I gathered had 
> some very serious reservations about all the existing Theosophical 
> groups, yep even ULT.
> 
> So was Walter inside or outside the Movement?
> 
> Then you write:
> 
> "After some time, though, you 'discovered' that it was not 
> politically profitable to use Johnson any longer to your own 
> purposes. Or -- was it no longer necessary? Please clarify."
> 
> "Then you started to apparenly defend the movement against PJ..."
> 
> Here Carlos you have so many presuppositions and assumptions piled 
> on each other, where would one even begin to straighten your 
> thinking out on the subject? Assuming that your thinking could be 
> straighten out! :)
> 
> As far as I can tell, you don't have a clue.
> 
> Notice your phrases:
> 
> "...to use Johnson any longer to your own purposes."
> 
> "Then you started to apparenly defend the movement against PJ..."
> 
> Jesus, how many assumptions are hidden in those words?????
> 
> From my first comments about Johnson's first book in my OCCULT WORLD 
> OF MADAME BLAVATSKY until today, my views have been the same. And 
> on my website I have always had a link to my critique of his books 
> and his reply and my further comments. 
> 
> And who said I was defending the "movement" against PJ???
> 
> Carlos believe whatever you want to about all of this. Assign 
> whatever motives or actions you want to me. I really don't care. 
> I see no reason to defend myself especially from you.
> 
> People can believe or disbelieve whatever they want.
> 
> I simply present material as food for thought. If they want to 
> throw it in the garbage can without looking at it, good let them do 
> it. It's their choice. Or they can do whatever....
> 
> I have presented material and critiques on Paul Johnson's writings 
> about HPB and the Masters. But I could care less whether Paul 
> Johnson likes or dislikes me. But neither Paul nor you nor me is 
> (as far as I'm concerned) the subject matter. HPB, the Masters and 
> Theosophy are my interest and I will not waste too much time on 
> secondary if not issues that are totally tertiary. 
> 
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
> 
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> 
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