Theos-Talk Archives (August 2006 Message tt00047)

Bill, Friends, 

OK. Thanks.

But what makes you think I ever "equated the Movement with the perennial wisdom itself?"  

Explain that.  The difference between the Movement and the Teaching is obviously great enough, and the perennial wisdom is quite a different matter!
Even the Teaching is very much limited if compared to the Wisdom Eternal, just as the Movement is and must be very much limited if compared to the Teaching. 

(As to the Teaching, it  naturally  dates back to Ancient India, Greece, Egypt, etc., and itself goes beyond words, being transmitted also by Example and Silence.) 

You say: "Still, so long as you remain clear that it is the Movement that you are protecting..." 

That needs qualification. I put FACTS above the "movement".  I will give you an illustration of that, Bill. 

When I first read Letter Seven and other idiocies in Algeo's volume, in the first semester of 2004,   I painfully doubted HPB.  At first,  I just could not think USA TPH could publish a  fake and slanderous action. 

Then I stopped to think, went through the "sources" of that fake text, saw it came from Soloviof, understood it all, and called from my rural home and library in Brasilia to a friend, a long standing editor in the English language (not a ULT member): 

-- "Tell me, am I dreaming, or Soloviof cannot be taken as a source of any historical information on HPB? Take a look at Sylvia Cranston! What happened to Algeo and the TPH?"

And the person said: 

-- "You are right.   Soloviof can be no source". 

Then I stopped doubting HPB. And still I checked that with Algeo himself, with Radha Burnier, Dara Eklund, Joy Mills and many others, before getting tougher. 

So, I clearly put  TRUTH  and FACTS well above any current opinion of mine.  

It is because of this characteristics of mine that, having once believed that CWL was a true disciple, I accepted the truth about his Pseudo-Theosophy and moved on.  

It is because of this characteristics of mine that, having once believed that J. Krishnamurti was an Initiate and a Brahmacharya (!) , I accepted the facts of his great human  limitations as confessed by Radha Burnier and other close students and friends of his, and moved on. (Ms. Radha honestly admitted his limitations and personal emotional complications in a face to face talk with me in 22 August 1995, during a Theosophical retreat in Brazil. ) 

What about H. P. Blavatsky? 

Easy. You  see, Bill --  Daniel Caldwell doesn't even have the courage to say that he believes in the Coulombs, or in Soloviof;  and John Algeo follows the very same track.  Algeo recently wrote in "The Theosophist" -- "those letters may well be fake..." 

"What a nerve!" I would say.  They publicize what they know to be but slanders. 

I hope that clarifies.

To me, Truth and Facts are above the Movement,  and above my vision of it; but slanders, lies and falsehoods are not "scientific", and therefore it is not my duty to accept them. 

If one reads the above lines in an impersonal and  non-reactive mood, perhaps one can see what I mean. 

I am a seeker.  That which I want to learn yet -- is far more important than that which I think I may have learned already; but conscious falsehoods, well, they are quite a different stuff. 


Regards,   Carlos. 









De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Tue, 01 Aug 2006 17:18:36 -0400

Assunto:Re: Theos-World JOHNSON, FREUD, JUNG & HPB

> Carlos, I understand what you are saying. I do not dispute the 
> existence of the Theosophical Movement, although I do dispute its value 
> to 21st century theosophy as it is currently configured.
> 
> Still, so long as you remain clear that it is the Movement that you are 
> protecting, then I have no disagreement with you. When you erroneously 
> equate the Movement with the perennial wisdom itself then I plan to 
> issue corrective actions. I am not a Movementist. I do not follow the 
> rules of the Movement regarding acceptable behavior or approved reading 
> materials.
> 
> As far as I can tell, between you and Daniel, it is overwhelmingly you 
> that gets morally offended because people do not entirely agree with you. 
> 
> peace,
> 
> bill
> 
> 
> 
> carlosaveline wrote:
> >
> > Friends,
> >
> > An interesting view by Bill, below.
> >
> > The fact is that there is a Theosophical Movement, with its aims, its 
> > teachings, and its goals. Facts are facts.
> >
> > Now, to circulate inside the movement the "thesis" that HPB invented the
> > Masters and therefore was a fraud is just like going into the 
> > Psychoanalytical Society and expecting to publish books with their 
> > support saying that Freud was a fake. Or like going into the Junguian 
> > circles and say that Carl Gustav Jung plagiarized all his view of 
> > Psychology. Or going into Astronomical/Astrophysical circles, 
> > circulating the idea that the Eath is flat and it is also the center 
> > of the universe, and then get mortally offended because people do not 
> > entirely agree with you.
> >
> > Regards, Carlos.
> >
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> >
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> >
> > Cópia:
> >
> > Data:Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:39:21 -0400
> >
> > Assunto:Re: Theos-World THE DOUBLE FACE
> >
> > > Friends,
> > >
> > > I see this as the crux of the issue. KPJ is not a Movementist. Neither
> > > am I. In later years, Johnson, who was an earnest student of theosophy
> > > finally refused to even classify himself as a theosophist in an effort
> > > to free himself from the inflexible mindset of Movementology.
> > >
> > > What Carlos asks below is only a valid question for Movementists 
> > "INSIDE
> > > the movement". Johnson's books, Algeo's books, Caldwell books, and a
> > > host of others including all the Movement books are easily assimilated
> > > into theosophy -- the broader universal theosophy that harmonizes all
> > > the ripples in the undercurrent of the one life as easily as rain falls
> > > from the heavens. But, these books, and apparently these people, are
> > > not so easily assimilated into the Movement, because the Movement is a
> > > 19th century phenomenon whose members apparently hold it in higher
> > > regard than they do the perennial wisdom itself.
> > >
> > >
> > > peace,
> > >
> > > bill
> > >
> > > carlosaveline wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Friends,
> > > >
> > > > K. Paul Johnson writes in Daniel Caldwell's website (see Daniel's
> > > > quotation below):
> > > >
> > > > "When HPB writes about Master M in a letter or an article, her
> > > > reference is actually to a composite character she created."
> > > >
> > > > Yes. But who opened room INSIDE the movement for such obviously
> > > > erroneous views , except John Algeo and Daniel Caldwell himself?
> > > >
> > > > This is the double-face policy.
> > > >
> > > > Regards, Carlos.
> > > >
> > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> > > >
> > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> > > >
> > > > Cópia:
> > > >
> > > > Data:Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:48:07 -0000
> > > >
> > > > Assunto:Theos-World "I view M. as a composite character...."
> > > >
> > > > > "I view M. as a composite character...."
> > > > >
> > > > > see:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/johnsonmcomposite.htm 
> > 
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Daniel
> > > > > http://hpb.cc
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra.
> > > > > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=carlosaveline&_l=1,1154461771.232084.10819.baladonia.hst.terra.com.br,3277,Des15,Des15 
> > 
> >
> > > >
> > > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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