Theos-Talk Archives (July 2006 Message tt00596)

Dallas,

Why not follow your original advice to
stick with HPB's originals?

Like the 1889 first edition of THE VOICE OF THE SILENCE....

Didn't Jerome Wheeler say the T.C. edition has
changes not only by Judge but probably by
Mead and Besant?!!

Why go thru all the changes?

Just stick with the original as you advise
students to do with OTHER works of HPB's....

The Kessinger reprint is a photographic
edition of the VOICE.

See;

http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0766102025/blavatskystud-20/

Tell the Theosophy Company to abandon the "silently edited"
version of the VOICE and return to HPB's original.

What is so hard about that?

Daniel

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "W.Dallas TenBroeck" 
<dalval14@...> wrote:
>
> Friday, July 28, 2006
> 
> Dallas writes from his files:
> 
> In regard to the VOICE OF THE SILENCE, I have reviewed what was 
written in
> the past.
> 
> Here is what I have found, and Mr. Caldwell has it all for some 
time.
> 
> -------------------------------------
> 
> Dallas wrote:  [ 2004 ]
> 
> 
> 	Subject: RE: HISTORY of early text printings of The VOICE OF 
THE
> SILENCE editions 
> 
> 
> I think you will see from my earlier post that I woke up to this 
1892-
> LONDON edition.  This was printed after HPB died May 8th 1891. 
> 
> My earlier letter of May 19th 2003 to Jerome has since been 
modified (too
> much writing).  But I am concerned about textual exactitude. We 
can at least
> get the "Eye Doctrine" straight. 
> 
> Yes it  (1892 edition) was produced after H. P. Blavatsky's death. 
[I have a
> copy for the past 45 years of this, as also of the 1889 original 
edition --
> given by me to the Los Angeles Lodge library.] 
> 
> I have it (1892--London) before me.  With Judge's editorial 
penciled marks.
> 
> Also I have the New York 1893 edition he had printed there with 
those
> changes introduced into it. 
> 
> So the chain is complete.  I had written:  {and I am adding to 
that now }
> 
>  
> ---------------------------
> 
> 
> 	COPY & MODIFICATIONS
> 
>  
> 2.         we ought to have one finally and carefully proof-read 
copy
> (electronic) of the ORIGINAL of 1889.  [ I have on my computer a 
copy of
> this right now (May 19 2003), from Phoenix. ]  I will proof-read 
the
> electronic copy made up by Phoenix U.  L  T.	[  www.phx-ult-
lodge.org/s
> ]
> 
>  
> 3.         I will use the table I prepared (just below, and 
modified, now
> brought up to date) as a basis and amend it as I go along.
> 
> 
> 4.	Since then I prepared an exhaustive INDEX to the Voice so 
that some
> of such expressions as might embody the "Heart Doctrine" can be 
verified by
> comparison.
> 
> 
> 	This INDEX has been attached to the PHOENIX U  L  T  list of
> Theosophical texts "on line"
> 
> 
> 				www.phx-ult-lodge.org/
> 
> 
> 	=============================================================
> 
> 
>   		INDEX to The VOICE OF THE SILENCE  	 [1924 U  L  
T ]
> 
> 			     By  H. P. Blavatsky
> 			          Dedicated to
> 			          "The Few"
> 
> 
> 		"It is the Spiritual evolution of the inner, 
immortal man, 
> 		that forms the fundamental tenet of the Occult 
Sciences. 
> 	 					S D  I  630
> 
> This Index is based on the U L T 1924 edition and pagination.
> 
> If errors, or omissions are found, or if improvements can be
> suggested,  please advise me [Dallas]
> 
> ================================================================
> 
> 1889	1st Edition of The VOICE OF THE SILENCE (London) 
> 1890	 reprint  (London)  [ HPB presumably saw and authorized 
corrections
> ]
> 1892	 reprint in larger size  (London) 
> 1893     American reprint ( Judge edited, footnotes added )
> 1899	 reprint
> 1924	 U L T reprinted American Edn of 1893
> 
> 
> =================================================================
> 
> 
> 	COPY & MODIFICATIONS as of now, 5.00 pm, May 19th 2003.
> 
> 
> From:   May 18 2003  [DTB to Jerome  -- "The Blind"]
> 
> As I see it:  we have a history of early editions for the VOICE OF 
THE
> SILENCE 
> 
> 
> 1          1889 ORIGINAL EDITION under H P B's proof reading (?) [ 
I have a
> copy = I will proof read this with the electronic version from 
Phoenix U L
> T.]   
> 
> [I gave my copy to the Lodge library several years ago and have 
since seen
> it there on the shelf.]   
> 
> I have, since writing the above, accessed the latest Phoenix 
electronic
> version.  I see it was  taken from # 85 of the EDMONTON T S 
facsimile
> edition produced, I think, about 2001.  It is COPYRIGHT, and we 
can use it
> only if they permit it.  I wrote on this to Phoenix, and await 
their answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 2          1890 2nd EDITION (with re-set type) --  H P B 
presumably saw this
> or OK ed it. (?) I had noted that some "corrections or changes 
were made
> compared to the 1889 1st edition." [ I have a copy of this.]
>  
> 
> 3.         1892 EDITION - LONDON  (I have a copy)  "UPADHYAYA" 
change (per
> 1890) is in there 
> p. 30 [compared to UPADAY (1889) -- which is incorrect]
>  
> 
> 4          Re:   1892  LONDON EDITION  ( Jerome says was tampered 
with by
> Mead and Besant )       {D T B      Can I see a copy ? }
> 
>  -----------------------------
> 
>  
> New     [Reply from Jerome 
> 
>              May 18 2003:
> 
>             Dear Dallas,
> 
> It is not a matter of assumptions when we have the original copy 
that Mr
> Judge marked up when he was preparing his reprint for 1893.  The 
book is in
> the office, along with J G's note on the front inside cover.  How 
we got it
> is a mystery!!  I will be glad to help you find it or even get it 
for you
> next time you are at the lodge.
> 
> best regards,
> 
> Jerome                         [Secured, thanks, Dal]
> 
>  ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> New    Dal notes May 19th 2003
> 
> 
>             John Garrigues wrote:  
> 
> "This is the copy of the Second Edition as printed from the 
English plates
> and as corrected by  Mr.  Judge for the smaller format of the 
American and
> English editions from reset type in 1893.  --J G."
> 
> He does not say that Mr. Mead and /or Mrs. Annie Besant revised or 
changed
> anything.
> 
> On examination, Mr. Judge made a number of changes to this 1893 
edition. 
> 
> I am not going to enumerate them here.          [ DTB ]
> 
>  
> -----------------------
> 
> 5          1892 - LONDON          Mr. Judge's notes in this copy 
issued in
> London (1892) and used for the New York edition issued in 1893  ( 
seen, but
> now we need to review and compare, I suggest proof reading the U L 
T 1927
> edition (reprints thereof) currently being sold, against the 1889 
edition
> and noting the "changes."  We will not be able to say who made 
them all, nor
> what their reasons may have been.  We can only note them, and 
suggest that
> those who want, can go to Web-Sites where the original can be 
read.)  
> 
> --------------------------------
> 
> Dal's view:
> 
> Personally, in view of my study of Judge's writings, and also, 
because of H
> P B's repeated affidavits concerning Judge's standing, trust 
his "changes
> and corrections."  
> 
> It is true that there are letters in which she takes him to task, 
but if one
> reads the whole sequence of correspondence, one finds that the 
cause for
> this was a misunderstanding, and when explained to her, the 
censure was
> removed by her.
> 
> Now this is no doubt my "faith" in Mr. Judges' acumen and 
integrity -- can
> it be called the beginning of a kind of Theosophical dogmatism?  I 
think the
> problem will only be resolved if one can seize the bit of the 
esoteric
> "Heart Doctrine" peeping up through chinks in the exoteric rind of 
words.  
> 
> The MEANING for the verses in the VOICE  is what is important. 
This is to
> explore the "Heart Doctrine." 
> 
>  Since we now have easy access through Internet to accurate copies 
of the
> "originals" as well as the "reprints," any one can play at proof 
reading,
> and view and compare these, and, arrive at their own conclusions.  
There is
> no further ground for argument on the basis of the "Eye Doctrine.".
> 
> If I have expressed myself in earlier letters, with strong 
affirmations, it
> can be seen that I did so in good faith and on the basis of the 
knowledge I
> had at the time of writing.  This is easily show by putting the 
full
> correspondence in chronological order.  And if necessary I can do 
this.
> 
> Dal.  [ February 8, 2006 ]
>  
> ----------------------------------
>  
> 
> 6          1893 MR. JUDGE'S NEW YORK EDITION of the VOICE OF THE 
SILENCE
> (with his notes on a 1892 London edition showing changes to be 
made in
> printing the New York edition)  -  a copy of this (New York 1893) 
edition is
> also in my hands, it is autographed by Mrs. Judge) --  (re-set 
type)
>  
> 
> 7          1927 T. CO. REPRINT OF THE 1893 JUDGE NEW YORK EDITION  
(re-set
> type) 
> 
> Any changes in text are to be determined by comparison with the 
ORIGINAL of
> 1889.  
> 
> It would be too laborious to go from edition to edition tracing 
changes
> made.  But if necessary, this can also be done.  It is a matter of 
honor.
> (See below on the "oblong squares.")
> 
> 
> 8          1931  BOMBAY U L T REPRINT of the Theosophy Company 
1927 edition
> of the New York Judge 1893 edition (re-set type) -- at the time 
this was
> done, I was told it had  also been checked with the Original 1889 
edition
> for accuracy of text and footnotes.  
> 
> Subsequent reprints in India in re-set type were proofed to this.  
I did
> some of them at the Sadhana Press, Baroda and the W. Q. Judge 
Press in
> Bangalore, both of which I managed.
> 
> 
> 9          THE "PEKING EDITION"  (1928 ?)   Alice Cleather edited 
and
> reprinted -- with an errata sheet (printed separately) as compared 
to the
> original 1889 Edition.
> 
> 
> 10        DAVID MCKAY "POCKET CLASSICS" NEW YORK EDITION   Date 
unknown
> (1930/40s ?)  (seems a copy of 1889 edition - I did not proof-read 
it, only
> glanced at it.)
> 
> 
> 11        2001  EDMONTON T S           produced 100 copies of the 
original
> 1889 edition in  a numbered, and copyrighted, edition.  They have 
tried to
> make it as close to an exact reproduction as is possible 102 years 
later.  [
> I see Phoenix used # 85 to scan and put this on their Web-Site.  
Do they
> have permission from Edmonton? I don't know. ]
> 
> 
> 12.       Others ?  [  By T S and Pasadena T S  and others  
Philippines ? ]
> 
> 
> ==================================================
> 
> 		THIN OBLONGS  /  OBLONG SQUARES
> 
> 
> DTB writes  
> 
> 1889 Original edition description reads: "The original Precepts 
are engraved
> on thin oblong squares copies very often on discs."
> 
> 1890 London edition reads identically to the original 1889 edition.
> 
> 1892 London edition the description on p. ii, 5th line reads:  "he 
original
> Precepts are engraved on thin oblongs; copies very often on discs."
> 
> 1893 New York Edition copies the London 1892 edition.
> 
> Dallas   checked on May 19th 2003 with the original books  
> 
> ======
> 
> 	Best wishes, and thanks,
> 
> 	Dallas.
> 
> =====================================
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: peter.m 
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 6:54 AM
> To: dalval14@...
> Subject: FW: HISTORY of early VOICE editions 
> 
>  
> 
> Dear Dallas,
> 
> You keep missing that there was an 1892 edition published in 
London *after*
> HPB's death... and *before* Judge's edition!
> 
> It is this edition, which has all the alterations, the alteration 
to 'thin
> oblong squares' etc,  and which we believe Judge used for his own 
1893
> edition.   If I have understood what Jerome wrote to you, he 
confirmed that
> in your Lodge the edition with all Judge's written notes is, in 
fact, the
> 1892 edition.   Perhaps Jerome could clarify one further time?
> --------------------------------
> 
> 		THIN OBLONGS  /  OBLONG SQUARES
> 
> DTB:  
> 
> 1889 Original edition description reads: "The original Precepts 
are engraved
> on thin oblong squares copies very often on discs."
> 
> 1890 London edition reads identically to the original 1889 edition.
> 
> 1892 London edition the description on p. ii, 5th line 
reads:  ""The
> original Precepts are engraved on thin oblongs; copies very often 
on discs."
> 
> 1893 New York Edition copies the London 1892 edition.
> 
> Dallas
> 
> ===========================================
> 
> 
> Read this mass of correspondence and decide 
> 
> Dallas
> 
> =================
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:theos-
talk@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of danielhcaldwell
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 12:31 PM
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Theos-World    Carlos on "Changing originals in an 
unconfessed
> way..."
> 
> Carlos,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> "Changing originals in an UNCONFESSED way, as proposed by USA 
> theosophists, was questioned by Radha Burnier, N. Sri Ram and 
> several others." caps added.
> 
> So would you agree that the Theosophy Company changed
> the original of THE VOICE in an UNCONFESSED way?
> 
> See just some of the examples of said changes in an UNCONFESSED 
way 
> at:
> 
> http://theos-talk.com/archives/199810/tt00044.html
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/11902
> 
> And do you yourself question such a practice?? Or do you approve 
of 
> it?
> 
> Just trying to see how consistent you are in your thinking
> in this matter.
> 
> Daniel
> 
> .
>