Theos-Talk Archives (July 2006 Message tt00425)

Daniel, Friends,  


I try to see the forest, besides the leaves of trees.  

As a whole, Boris was a great worker. Look at the "Collected Writings", for instance. 

The "Collected Writings" was, or is,  an "ecumenical" effort, and this fact has in itself an enormous merit. 

C. Jinarajadasa, for instance, who made many more mistakes, has my respects and gratitude because, 1) he defended HPB; 2) helped work with the Mahatma Letters (LMW); 3) helped open a dialogue among the various theosphical groups; 4) anyone who works for the movement is entitled to make mistakes as any other human.  

I recognize important merits in Radha Burnier, in N. Sri Ram and many others with whom I disagree in more than one issue. The movement is good as it is. Its "childhood" will take a few centuries, at least, and all its workers will have other chances in future times, according to their sincerity at heart.  

Boris is certainly one of the best theosophical workers in the 20 century.  A mysterious occultist, by the way, on whom scarce personal data will be found. A man respected by everyon in the movement-- except perhaps Trojan Horses. 


Best regards,   Carlos. 






De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:58:44 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World "Daniel Caldwell attacks Boris de Zirkoff's work." ?????????

> "Daniel Caldwell attacks Boris de Zirkoff's work." ?????????
> 
> Carlos, you write:
> 
> "Daniel Caldwell attacks Boris de Zirkoff's work."
> 
> I simply stated the facts which can be confirmed
> by anyone. 
> 
> Carlos, ask Dallas or Jerome if what I state about
> Boris' edition of the SD is not true.
> 
> I repeat below what I said in my previous email. Each
> reader can decide if I am "attacking" Boris' work or
> simply stating the facts:
> 
> Boris de Zirkoff in fact "silently edited" the Collected
> Writings edition of the Secret Doctrine first published by
> Adyar TPH and later reprinted by Wheaton TPH.
> 
> In other words, Boris EDITED H.P.B.'s text changing spellings of
> words, actually substituted "one word" for another one in many
> instances, etc. etc....
> 
> This in fact constitutes SILENT EDITING. That is, by looking
> at the BdeZ edition of the SD, it is NOT possible to determine what
> changes, etc. have actually been made in the text by Boris de
> Zirkoff.
> 
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> wrote:
> >
> > Friends,
> > 
> > 
> > Now Daniel Caldwell attacks Boris de Zirkoff's work. And, of 
> course, he attacks his work through inuendos and rhetoric questions, 
> as he does with HPB, Judge, the ULT, etc. 
> > 
> > A revealing attitude, since Boris' contribution to the movement 
> and to its literature is outstanding. 
> > 
> > Things are not all black and white. I prefer facsimile editions of 
> the "Secret Doctrine". But Boris' edition of the "Secret Doctrine" 
> is fundamentally sane and healthy. Nothing like Annie Besant's 1897 
> edition. 
> > 
> > I see mistakes in the Adyar TS -- and I also see some steps ahead. 
> One of them was abandoning the Besant edition of the SD. 
> > 
> > Facsimilar editions (published by Theosophy Co. and T.U.P.) can be 
> used and compared with Boris' TPH edition. 
> > 
> > 
> > Best regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Cópia:
> > 
> > Data:Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:53:22 -0000
> > 
> > Assunto:Theos-World Re: Carlos on "the authentic edition of 
> the 'Secret Doctrine' prepared by Boris....!
> > 
> > > Very interesting information, thanks
> > > I use the TUP edition of the SD is that edition free of editing?
> > > 
> > > The online edition says the following :
> > > 
> > > "This edition was corrected against the facsimile edition of 
> 1888. 
> > > Obvious errors, such as missing letters, have been corrected; 
> > > otherwise it follows the facsimile edition -- material not 
> appearing 
> > > there appears in double brackets [[ ]]. Hebrew characters are 
> > > inserted as illustrations, but Greek text has been 
> transliterated 
> > > into italic Latin characters in double brackets. For further 
> > > explanation of the conventions used, go to the Notes file."
> > > 
> > > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sd/sd-hp.htm
> > > 
> > > Cheers
> > > 
> > > Perry
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "danielhcaldwell" 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Carlos on "the authentic edition of the 'Secret Doctrine' 
> > > > prepared by Boris de Zirkoff"....!!!!!!
> > > > 
> > > > Carlos writes:
> > > > 
> > > > =================================================
> > > > It was the Theosophy Co. which first re-published 
> > > > the original Secret Doctrine in 1925, thus starting 
> > > > the tendency to keep to original editions and to abandon
> > > > the "silently edited" and "adapted" editions promoted 
> > > > by Adyar. Later on, by FINALLY adopting the AUTHENTIC
> > > > edition of the "Secret Doctrine" prepared by Boris de 
> > > > Zirkoff, the very Adyar TS abandoned the fancy and
> > > > illegitimate edition of the SD published by GRS Mead 
> > > > and Annie Besant in 1897. 
> > > > ================================================
> > > > 
> > > > caps added.
> > > > 
> > > > I really wonder why Carlos praises "the authentic edition of 
> > > > the 'Secret Doctrine' prepared by Boris de Zirkoff".
> > > > 
> > > > He gives the impression that Adyar abandoned "silent
> > > > editing" by adopting the BdeZ "authentic" edition.
> > > > 
> > > > I have no idea what Carlos means by "authentic".
> > > > 
> > > > I suppose he has some definition in his mind.
> > > > 
> > > > But consider the following:
> > > > 
> > > > Boris de Zirkoff in fact "silently edited" the Collected
> > > > Writings edition of the Secret Doctrine first published by
> > > > Adyar TPH and later reprinted by Wheaton TPH.
> > > > 
> > > > In other words, Boris EDITED H.P.B.'s text changing spellings 
> of
> > > > words, actually substituted "one word" for another one in many 
> > > > instances, etc. etc. 
> > > > 
> > > > Many examples have been given of these "editings" by Tony 
> Maddock
> > > > of the Mahatma Letters Trust and also by the late Walter 
> > > > Carrithers. Both Maddock and Carrithers have SEVERELY 
> criticized 
> > > > Boris' editing.
> > > > 
> > > > This in fact constitutes SILENT EDITING. That is, by looking
> > > > at the BdeZ edition of the SD, it is NOT possible to determine 
> what
> > > > changes, etc. have actually been made in the text by Boris de 
> > > > Zirkoff.
> > > > 
> > > > In fact, one could aptly borrow a sentence from the Theosophy 
> > > > Company to describe Mr. de Zirkoff's edition of the SD:
> > > > 
> > > > "Its exact authenticity, however, cannot be determined without 
> > > > laborious comparison with the original."
> > > > 
> > > > And Carlos is apparently more than willing to approve of 
> > > > THIS "silent editing" with these significant words:
> > > > 
> > > > "the authentic edition of the 'Secret Doctrine' prepared by 
> Boris 
> > > de 
> > > > Zirkoff". !!!!!
> > > > 
> > > > Now it is true that Boris warns the reader in the prefactory 
> > > > material to the new edition that this kind of silent editing 
> has 
> > > > been done.
> > > > 
> > > > At least, this is a decided improvement over NO note in the 
> > > > Theosophy Company's edition of the VOICE to warn readers 
> > > > that "silent editing" has been done!!!
> > > > 
> > > > Daniel
> > > > http://hpb.cc
> > > >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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