Theos-Talk Archives (July 2006 Message tt00009)

Friends,

This is an important dialogue, see below. 

Apparently, John Algeo's dealings with the "HPB Letters" have been most unfortunate from the very beginning, even before he decided to circulate and publicize a collection of the worst libels and lies against H. P. Blavatsky.   

I will soon bring here Gregory Tillett's views of the process by which Algeo dealt with John Coper's family and work,  and other interesting  facts.

Someone in the Adyar TS should take measures for correct the mistakes which can still be corrected, and to prevent further and unnecessary mistakes in the future edition of HPB Letters. 

Best regards,   Carlos Cardoso Aveline 


 
De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:36:02 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Comparing Deveney with Algeo

> In his review of THE LETTERS OF H.P.
> BLAVATSKY, Volume I, Mr. Deveney wrote:
> 
> ============================================
> 
> [Dr. Algeo] ... states
> that, for unspecified reasons, none
> of Cooper's work could be used "directly,"
> and that even his transcriptions of texts
> were not used because they were "not
> accurate." This is a surprising charge,
> directed as it is toward a person known
> for his meticulous work and now unavailable
> to defend himself.
> [as quoted in Paul Johnson's excerpts]
> 
> ============================================
> 
> Now let us quote from pp. xiv-xv of Algeo's
> preface selected excerpts for comparison
> with Deveney's above statements:
> 
> =============================================
> 
> ...Boris de Zirkoff . . . gathered all letters
> [of Blavatsky's] of whose existence he knew and
> tentatively dated them. . . .
> 
> . . . de Zirkoff left ... [this manuscript of
> HPB's letters]. . . . to the Theosophical
> Society in America. . . .
> 
> [Later] . . . the Theosophical Publishing
> House [Wheaton] asked [John] Cooper to become
> the editor of all the letters and passed on
> to him COPIES of all the letters that de
> Zirkoff had collected.... [caps added]
> 
> John [Cooper]... located a number of additional
> letters unknown to Boris de Zirkoff because
> of their obscurity or because they had come
> to light only after Boris's death. . .
> 
> After John Cooper's death, it became clear that,
> for several reasons, his work on the letters
> could not be used directly. One of those reasons
> was the discovery that the texts of many of the
> letters - both those de Zirkoff had collected but
> not fully edited and those Cooper had added to
> the known corpus - were not accurate. . . .
> 
> John Algeo as ... [the] new editor . . . [decided
> that] all of the texts had to be regathered to assure
> their accuracy and fidelity to the best original
> sources. That task was performed personally by
> John and Adele Algeo for most of the letters. . . .
> 
> ==========================================
> 
> Ok, let me again quote Mr. Deveney's statement
> and follow that with a specific statement by
> Dr. Algeo:
> 
> Deveney:
> 
> ==================================================
> [Dr. Algeo] ... states
> that, for unspecified reasons, none
> of Cooper's work could be used "directly,"
> and that even his transcriptions of texts
> were not used because they were "not
> accurate." This is a surprising charge,
> directed as it is toward a person known
> for his meticulous work and now unavailable
> to defend himself.[as quoted in Paul Johnson's excerpts]
> 
> ================================================
> 
> Algeo:
> 
> =================================================
> 
> After John Cooper's death, it became clear that,
> for several reasons, his work on the letters
> could not be used directly. One of those reasons
> was the discovery that the texts of many of the
> letters - both those de Zirkoff had collected but
> not fully edited and those Cooper had added to
> the known corpus - were not accurate. . . .
> 
> ================================================
> 
> Notice Deveney's statement:
> 
> "HIS [John Cooper's] transcriptions of texts
> were not used because they were "not accurate."
> 
> ==============================================
> 
> This statement is incomplete and does not
> tell the whole story. Algeo had specifically
> written:
> 
> ================================================
> 
> . . . the discovery that the texts of MANY of the
> letters - BOTH those de Zirkoff had collected but
> not fully edited and those Cooper had added to
> the known corpus - were not accurate. . . .
> 
> ================================================
> 
> When Deveney writes:
> 
> "HIS [John Cooper's] transcriptions of texts
> . . . were 'not accurate.' "
> 
> the reader might conclude that Cooper had
> transcribed ALL the letters and that Algeo
> was stating that ALL of Cooper's transcriptions of
> the letters were not accurate.
> 
> This is not what Algeo actually wrote.
> 
> Having personally in 1987 or 1986
> gone to The TS in Wheaton, Illinois and having
> been given access to the archives, I carefully
> went through de Zirkoff's notebooks in which
> he had filed chonologically all of his own
> transcriptions of HPB's letters. Boris
> had typed or had someone else type up a
> transcription. I can see how errors could
> have crept in.
> 
> Considering all the letters collected by
> BOTH de Zirkoff and Cooper I would estimate
> that de Zirkoff probably transcribed into
> his manuscript about 85 % of the total number
> of extant letters.
> 
> This would mean that Cooper possibly transcribed about 15%
> of the total number.
> 
> As far as I can tell from studying Cooper's dissertation
> (available in microfiche), it appears to me
> that Cooper simply incorporated into his text
> the transcriptions provided in the copies given
> to him by TPH Wheaton. That is, all the copies
> from Boris' notebooks in the Wheaton archives.
> 
> As far as I know from phone conversations
> with John Cooper over several years, he did NOT
> have the photocopies or microfilm reproductions of
> many of HPB's ORIGINAL handwritten letters therefore
> he would not have been in a position to check
> the accuracy of the transcription Boris had made.
> 
> I talked on the phone with John Cooper about
> 2 weeks before he died.
> 
> At that point I told
> him I was going to send him in a month or two a
> box of microfilm
> containing rare periodicals and newspapers that
> would be relevant to HPB's letters and also
> was planning to send him microfilm of many of
> HPB's original handwritten letters.
> 
> And focusing on the transcriptions John Cooper had
> made, there are a number of ways errors could have
> crept in.
> 
> Deveney writes:
> 
> ===================================================
> 
> This is a surprising charge,
> directed as it is toward a person known
> for his meticulous work and now unavailable
> to defend himself.
> 
> =======================================================
> 
> Yes John was meticulous but that doesn't mean
> transcription mistakes couldn't crept into John's
> manuscript.
> 
> I am right now trancribing 3 of HPB's unknown letters
> which I recently discovered. I have gone thru several
> revisions of the transcriptions and each time I
> find where I made errors. It is hard to be meticulous
> and one probably has to revise and revise and hope
> that the final product is as accurate as humanly
> possible.
> 
> As far as I know, the manuscript John sent to Wheaton
> before his death was not some final and finished
> production ready to go to press.
> 
> John had told me before he died that he wanted
> me to have a copy of what he had so far worked on and
> wanted me to go over it with a fine tooth comb looking
> for mistakes, gaps, etc. and make suggestions as to
> how the manuscript could be improved and how his own
> notes and introductory material could be improved.
> 
> In other words it was a working draft copy and no doubt
> if John had lived he would have revised it probably a number
> of times before the volume would have been published by
> TPH Wheaton.
> 
> He also wanted Jerry Hejka-Edkins to have a copy and
> also provide feedback and comments.
> 
> Furthermore, I remember when Dr. Algeo wrote to me
> and told me that he had discovered that many of the
> transcriptions were not accurate. This was after
> John Cooper had died.
> 
> What was Dr. Algeo suppose to do? Ignore the
> mistakes.
> 
> From the very beginning of my collaboration with
> Dr. Algeo on this project, he was insistent that
> the transcriptions be as close to the originals as
> humanly possible. With no corrrections or editing
> of HPB's words.
> 
> Later I read what Gregory Tillett was writing on Theos-Talk
> and also in an article in FOHAT.
> 
> On Theos-Talk, Gregory Tillett wrote:
> 
> =====================================================
> John deliberately had this clause
> included in the contract. He was (as he told me on several
> occasions, including on the night before his death, and
> as he told others)concerned that attempts might be made to
> inappropriately edit, 'censor' or amend the
> text of the HPB correspondence.
> ===========================================================
> 
> And there is another relevant quote on this same subject
> in Tillett's letter published in FOHAT.
> 
> Several Theosophists apparently took this "possibility" and spread
> the rumor that Dr. Algeo was inappropriately
> editing, censoring or amending the text of HPB's letters!
> 
> I guess I've rambled on enough but I wanted to give a
> fuller picture of what Mr. Deveney was trying to write about.
> 
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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