Theos-Talk Archives (June 2006 Message tt00351)

WAS THERE OR WAS THERE NOT A JESUS CHARACTER ACCORDING TO THEOSOPHY?

Dear fellow theosophists,

First let me say these 4 things:

(1) HELP!

(2) This is about things that are spoken about in my "QuickTopic" forum
that is entitled:
"A place for Theosophists to work together to create a Movie about
JESUS"
(The link to the forum is at the end of this message.)

(3) Carl Miller's postings in my "QuickTopic" forum are message numbers
7, 20, 26, and 28.

(4) My John DeSantis postings in response to each of them are message
numbers 10, 21, 27, and 29.

I have below presented in this message only a copy of my message number
29, which at the present moment is the last one in the forum. Based on
what Carl Miller has so far posted, and my responses to him, I most
humbly call for many knowledgeable theosophists to enter the
conversation.

I hope that once you read the below message, which will paint a clear
enough picture for you to see what is going on and why I sent you all
this message, many of you will at least, in order to get a complete
picture of how he thinks so far, then read all four of his messages, and
my other three responses to them. As said, the link to the forum where
they are at is at the end of this message -- and is a forum that I have
previously told everyone about in this and other forums.

OK, this is the copy of my message number 29:

=====================
Carl,

You said in message number 28, which I assume was in response to my
message number 27 (as well as my earlier messages to you, as I mentioned
in my message number 27):

"You seem to believe that if one reads the articles you suggest that he
would believe what you do. Your personal attack that I have not read the
articles is simply untrue. I have read them, and I don't believe they
establish a historical Jesus. Nor are they accurate in several other
points."

I'm sincerely sorry that you took it as a "personal attack", since it
wasn't meant to be, but I kept asking you in my different postings if
you had read the articles and, until the above thing you said, you never
answered me on that particular question, and my suggestions to do so. As
I was reading your postings I found that I simply needed to know, one
way or the other, if you have read them, and so that theosophists would
also come to know, simply because of the opinions and ideas put forward
by you.

Since I have a firm conviction, but not a blind belief, that what is in
those 24 articles from THEOSOPHY magazine, much of which are things
taken from HPB's writings, and so maybe, overall, are valid enough to
prove that Jesus was a real character as explained in those articles,
so, as said, I wanted to know if you had read those articles, since all
of your opinions are against the idea that a real Jesus existed from the
theosophical point of view that I read about in theosophy, which these
four things that you said in your message number 28 absolutely affirms:

You said this near the end of the 1st paragraph: I have read them, and I
don't believe they establish a historical Jesus. Nor are they accurate
in several other points.

This was your 2nd paragraph: Here is an example: "Krishna is said to
have died on a cross, nailed to it by an arrow."

[Note from John for readers of this message: Please know that Carl took
the above quote about Krishna from the 2nd of the first two of the 24
articles about Jesus. Those two articles are from the "GREAT
THEOSOPHISTS" 29-part series of articles. They are both entitled "JESUS,
THE CHRIST" because it is a 2-part article.]

This was your 3rd paragraph: Can you substantiate this claim? Of course
not. It isn't true!

And this was further down and was your last paragraph: Jesus is no more
real and historical than Krishna, Zeus, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, or
the Easter Bunny.

The bottom line is that I wanted to absolutely know both for myself, and
for theosophists, if you are right or they are right, and if all your
thoughts were also based on what is in those 24 articles, besides the
mass of other things you have probably read, studied, and researched in
your life.

And if I am wrong, and all that I read in theosophy and THEOSOPHY
magazine about a real person named Jesus actually existing is dead
wrong, and you are right about this, then I definitely want to know
about it, and even want other theosophists to know about it, especially
the knowledgeable ones throughout the worldwide Theosophical Movement.

If it be the case that I simply understand all that I have read within
the Movement incorrectly, I want knowledgeable theosophists to clearly
tell me that how I have read into all that is in theosophy, and in those
24 articles from THEOSOPHY magazine is wrong -- meaning that what I read
into it all is that Jesus was a real character, contrary to what you
say. Besides wanting to be told so by them, I want them speak to all
that you have said in this "QuickTopic" discussion space that I have
created:

"A place for Theosophists to work together to create a Movie about
JESUS".

Since I don't know which of the 13 forums you are a member of, where you
may have first run into my proposal and suggestion for theosophists to
consider creating a movie about Jesus -- or if you are not a member of
any of them, but are one of the hundreds of people that I also sent a
separate e-mail too about this project, who I assumed at the time were
associated in some way with many different theosophical organizations,
as mentioned in message number 22 here, please know that I will soon be
posting something about all of this in the 13 theosophical forums that I
have posted things in concerning this Jesus movie-making idea. Why? So
that you know and so that knowledgeable theosophists can have their say
as well as share their thoughts with you about this, in all those 13
forums. But since, unfortunately, MOST of those messages, and maybe even
ALL of them, you WON'T get to see if you are not a member of any of
them, or only a member of just one of them, I do hope that they will
also post their messages in this forum, where you WILL get to see what
they say and can dialogue with them.

Carl, I most sincerely hope that you do not feel attacked again. Why?
Because I just want to see where all this goes, since theosophy and
theosophists have their views about the existence of a Jesus character,
whether true or false, and which I have been open-mindedly studying for
many years; and you have your very strong counter true or false views
that no Jesus character ever existed. Since I have thought for many
years that theosophy and theosophists know what they are talking about
concerning the existence of a Jesus character, but which I don't
personally know the truth or falsity of, and you do take a very strong
and very confident hardball position on the subject concerning your
particular views, all I can say is this:

If many theosophists choose to get involved, which I do hope will
happen, let the debate between you and them begin!

John DeSantis
=====================

OK, this is where you can click on to continue reading about this -- His
4 postings, and my responses to them, and hopefully the rest of the
messages posted there by me and others:

"A place for Theosophists to work together to create a Movie about
JESUS"
http://www.quicktopic.com/37/H/xXY4ny4eB6v/p-1.-1
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