Theos-Talk Archives (June 2006 Message tt00089)

Bruce,

Yes, "context" is so important, but the "context" you give,
I ask, is it THE context or simply your interpretation
of what you think the context should be? 

I have right before me, manuscripts of 2 other writers
and their "context" is totally different than yours in regards
to Mrs. Holloway and Judge.

I'm not saying who is right and who is wrong --- but I would
suggest that the "context" itself may sometimes be difficult
to determine.  For one reason, in your "context", you make
certain assumptions which may or may not be true.

For example, you write:

"When Judge met Holloway, no doubt she had sat for friends and family
as a medium.  She had come to certain understandings about what she
was doing, understandings that made her a valuable tool for the
dugpas, as all mediums are to some extent.  Judge then worked with 
her in order to open up her sensitive nature so as to be sympathetic 
to spiritual influences."

Well, what is all of this based on?  Are there primary source
documents which support these assertions?  Or are you simply assuming
one thing and then assuming something else, on top of that, etc. etc.

Bruce, I'm not trying to be difficult just to be difficult but I 
think we must ask:  what are the known facts as separate from 
interpretations, etc. that we may put on the known facts.

In my critique of just one of the statements made by Ernest Pelletier
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/33929> I showed
how one can pile one assumption or speculation on top of another, 
when the basic fact so stated is not even factual to start with.  

Daniel



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "robert_b_macd" 
<robert.b.macdonald@...> wrote:
>
> Again, context is so important.
> 
> As pointed out before, K.H. wrote:
> 
> "We had found Mrs. H. in America, we impressed her to prepare for
> the writing of the book she has produced with the aid of Mohini."
> 
> This is a clear signal from K.H. that Judge was the Master's agent 
in
> America -- "We had found . . .".  It suggests that the work Judge 
was
> doing with Holloway was on their behest.
> 
> When Judge met Holloway, no doubt she had sat for friends and 
family
> as a medium.  She had come to certain understandings about what she
> was doing, understandings that made her a valuable tool for the
> dugpas, as all mediums are to some extent.  Judge then worked with 
her
> in order to open up her sensitive nature so as to be sympathetic to
> spiritual influences.
> 
> When this second training was done she was sent to Europe for a 
test.
>  Would she revert to mediumship or would she embrace and understand
> what Judge tried to impart to her.  Would the Europeans encourage 
her
> spiritual nature or her mediumistic nature.  In the end both she 
and
> the Europeans failed the test.  It is never asserted anywhere that
> Judge was duped by her.  Perhaps he had high expectations and HPB 
was
> aiming a jab at him for being too hopeful.  That is all I read in
> these few lines below that are woefully lacking in any context.  
When
> taken by themselves they seem to say one thing, when placed in a 
full
> history they lose most of their force.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "danielhcaldwell"
> <danielhcaldwell@> wrote:
> >
> > In 1885 HPB wrote to Judge:
> > 
> > "He [Hartmann] believes like Olcott used to and you sometimes 
also 
> > that I am usually a `shell' which becomes good for something 
only 
> > when some one else enters it. Believe what you please. But know 
that 
> > I am ever faithful to my friends & remain grateful for the 
little 
> > they may do for me even when they become enemies. Oh gods what a 
> > dirty world what false people!" 
> > 
> > "Look at Mrs. Holloway. Do you still admire her?..."
> > 
> > Quoted from:  http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hpbwqj01.htm
> > 
> > Judge replied:
> > 
> > "What I wrote about to Hartmann is [concerning] a ridiculous 
message 
> > about Holloway which if it emanated from a Mahatma showed lack 
of 
> > knowledge to say the least.  But let us drop that?."
> > 
> > "As for L.C. Holloway enough said.  I have not seen her since I 
came 
> > back except to deliver a pair of [drawers?] Miss Arundale bought 
her 
> > in London.  She does not like me?."
> > 
> > Then in 1886, H.P.B. wrote her estimation of Mrs. Holloway to 
Mr. 
> > Sinnett:
> > 
> > "...The first bomb-shell from the Dugpa world came from America; 
you
> > welcomed and warmed it in your own breast. . . . The Dugpa 
element
> > triumphed fully at one time -- why? because you believed in one
> > [Laura Holloway] who was sent by the opposing powers for the
> > destruction of the [Theosophical] Society and permitted to act as
> > she and others did by the 'higher powers,' as you call them, 
whose
> > duty it was not to interfere in the great probation save at the 
last
> > moment. To this day you are unable to say what was true, what
> > false...." The Mahatma Letters, No. 141.
> > 
> > Daniel
> >
>