Theos-Talk Archives (June 2006 Message tt00010)

Cass,

I said Viracocha is the inner aspect of the Sun, in one of its readings, 
in the Andean tradition.

I will leave this for you to interpret.

Carlos. 

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Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Wed, 31 May 2006 18:58:28 -0700 (PDT)

Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World VIRACHOCHA and INTI

> Carlos, what do you mean by Viracocha is the inner aspect of the Sun. What exactly, in your words, is the inner aspect of the Sun? What in your words is a solar deity?
> 
> Cass
> 
> carlosaveline wrote: Friends, 
> 
> Inti is the Sun. 
> 
> Viracocha is the inner aspect of the Sun. 
> 
> A solar deity in the Andean Tradition. 
> 
> 
> Carlos. 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> C�pia:
> 
> Data:Wed, 31 May 2006 07:02:29 +0200
> 
> Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World CASS, SOCRATES AND VIRACHOCHA
> 
> > That is indeed CURIOUS, Cass.
> > 
> > Viracocha, the white, beared man:
> > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9054/viraco.html
> > 
> > The more if you read with the Old High German key:
> > vera cota = the true god.
> > 
> > It will be more clear if you use the sentence 
> > before your quote as a key.
> > 
> > OHG Quez al coto = all knowing god.
> > 
> > Quezalcoto/Viracocha/Verakotscha/Wotan/Vatan is 
> > the same OHG deitic creation emanation.
> > 
> > Bla vat sky = the angelic messenger knew this and 
> > was the creator of a new age.
> > 
> > It is stated in the Book of Dzyan.
> > 
> > Dzyan is the 
> > Teutan/teut-ahn/teut-anu/teut/teot/deus/teotl/theos/thot/zeus/zion, 
> > the highest god of the old Germans in the 
> > Mecklenburg area.
> > 
> > Frank
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Cass Silva" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:16 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World CASS, SOCRATES AND 
> > VIRACHOCHA
> > 
> > 
> > You might like to educate me Carlos. Vishnu, 
> > Dagon (Logos or Parabrahman). "It is curious that 
> > Viracocha, the Supreme Being in Peru, means, 
> > literally translated, "foam of the sea." IUP259
> > Cass
> > 
> > carlosaveline wrote: 
> > Cass,
> > 
> > You know nothing about my library.
> > 
> > Try discuss Virachocha and you will see.
> > 
> > Carlos.
> > 
> > 
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > C�pia:
> > 
> > Data:Mon, 29 May 2006 21:58:00 -0700 (PDT)
> > 
> > Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World CASS and the NOUS
> > 
> > > Carlos,
> > > With respect, I am convinced that you spent your 
> > > past lifetime at the feet of Socrates as no 
> > > amount of evidence will budge you. So be it.
> > >
> > > Cass
> > >
> > > carlosaveline wrote: Cass,
> > >
> > > NOUS is the higher self, and Socrates's Daimon 
> > > was basically his own NOUS.
> > >
> > > I have been quoting HPB to try to tell you that 
> > > for a few weeks now.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards, Carlos.
> > >
> > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > C�pia:
> > >
> > > Data:Sun, 28 May 2006 20:51:00 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > > Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Dallas, Socrates 
> > > & Subba Row
> > >
> > > > I thought Nous, was translated as "good at 
> > > > being a man"? Pure and mixed suggests the 
> > > > duality of higher and lower mind.
> > > >
> > > > Galileo retracted and wasn't persecuted. 
> > > > Apollonious was not persecuted, he simply 
> > > > vanished.
> > > > Cass
> > > >
> > > > carlosaveline wrote: Dear Dallas,
> > > >
> > > > You quote me: "You ask in conclusion: " So 
> > > > Socrates� Daimon was his own higher self, 
> > > > Monad, Atma-Buddhi."
> > > >
> > > > Not quite, Dallas.
> > > >
> > > > Better then me, let's see, please, H. P. B.'s 
> > > > words:
> > > >
> > > > �The daemonium of Socrates was his nous [in 
> > > > Greek in the original], mind,
> > > > spirit, or understanding of the divine in it. 
> > > > �The nous [in Greek in the
> > > > original] of Socrates�, says Plutarch, 
> > > > �was pure and mixed itself with the
> > > > body no more than necessity required.... (...) 
> > > > The part that is plunged into
> > > > the body is called soul. But the incorruptible 
> > > > part is called the nous and
> > > > the vulgar think it is within them, as they 
> > > > likewise imagine the image from
> > > > a glass [ that is, a mirror ] to be in that 
> > > > glass. But the more intelligent,
> > > > who know it to be without, call it a Daemon� 
> > > > (a god, a Spirit).�
> > > >
> > > > (�Isis Unveiled�, H. P. Blavatsky, T.U.P., 
> > > > Pasadena, CA, USA, 1988, Volume II, 284-285.)
> > > >
> > > > Please read "Aplogy of Socrates" and you will 
> > > > see whether Socrates, Plato'sx master, was 
> > > > above his time "Mystery Schools", in Ethics 
> > > > and in Ethics.
> > > >
> > > > And remember that persecution is the common 
> > > > lot of sages in all time -- Seneca, Bruno, 
> > > > Galilei, Appolonyus, so many others...
> > > >
> > > > The story of Subba Row is quite different.
> > > >
> > > > Subba Row died at 34 " et pour cause", as the 
> > > > French saying goes.
> > > >
> > > > There were reasons for that.
> > > >
> > > > No advanced disciple could do what he did with 
> > > > regard to HPB and the Master's work. Loyal in 
> > > > his heart, he lost his body. OK.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards, Carlos.
> > > >
> > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > C�pia:
> > > >
> > > > Data:Sun, 28 May 2006 07:25:16 -0700
> > > >
> > > > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World RE: Socrates' 
> > > > Higher Self or "Nous" The E S
> > > >
> > > > > 5/28/2006 6:18 AM
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Carlos:
> > > > >
> > > > > You ask in conclusion:
> > > > >
> > > > > " So Socrates� Daimon was his own higher 
> > > > > self, Monad, Atma-Buddhi.
> > > > > "
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me offer the following thoughts: It 
> > > > > seems to me in this case that the
> > > > > personality we know of historically as 
> > > > > Socrates had not undergone the
> > > > > process of Lower-Self [Kama-Manas] 
> > > > > purification which the "Mystery schools"
> > > > > in Plato's time still made available.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe he was called "mediumistic" and 
> > > > > was not therefore in full
> > > > > Buddhi-Manasic control of the highest aspect 
> > > > > of his personality
> > > > > (Kama-Manas).
> > > > >
> > > > > Under the rules then in force in Plato's 
> > > > > time (those of the Mystery Schools)
> > > > > he had violated (unknowingly to himself) 
> > > > > these by offering openly some items
> > > > > that where still most secret.
> > > > >
> > > > > Looking for another and more recent example 
> > > > > of this we can find how shocked
> > > > > Subba Row was when he was asked by HPB to 
> > > > > review and edit the first pages of
> > > > > the SECRET DOCTRINE -- copied by C. 
> > > > > Wachtmeister and sent to him in Mss. at
> > > > > Adyar.
> > > > >
> > > > > He (I conclude) must have found himself in 
> > > > > conflict with his own pledges of
> > > > > secrecy as a Brahman. Yet it is said he had 
> > > > > the same Guru as HPB.
> > > > > Apparently even such advanced chelas as SR 
> > > > > have to develop and exert their
> > > > > independent Intuition over such matters .
> > > > >
> > > > > [ In any case, we are told that HPB had 
> > > > > "special permission" granted to her
> > > > > to reveal facts that had hitherto been kept 
> > > > > ESOTERIC -- see ISIS UNVEILED,
> > > > > Vol. II, p. 307 top ]
> > > > >
> > > > > I will offer an opinion on what happened:
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a hint given by HPB, as she says 
> > > > > that starting with the E S (1888)
> > > > > a change was given to the direction of 
> > > > > exoteric theosophical work [The
> > > > > THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in Adyar and Olcott 
> > > > > swayed by the Council, had rejected
> > > > > her (1885) and the Masters directions and 
> > > > > methods.] -- and she stated later
> > > > > that she would be solely responsible for the 
> > > > > consequences of the changes she
> > > > > would make, and yet, retain fraternal 
> > > > > relations with the many sections and
> > > > > branches of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY every 
> > > > > one of which she declared to be
> > > > > independent, and united under Col. Olcott, 
> > > > > as President for Life.
> > > > >
> > > > > She lived for 3 years thereafter, and 
> > > > > designated Judge (with 13 years of
> > > > > successful chelaship embodied in him) to 
> > > > > carry on and direct the Esoteric
> > > > > Section after her passing. His ability and 
> > > > > power in America caused the
> > > > > THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY to expand rapidly and 
> > > > > spread to some extent Europe and
> > > > > Australia. Yet he (WQJ) was an ill person 
> > > > > and had no desire to usurp Olcott,
> > > > > or to go to Adyar.
> > > > >
> > > > > Col. Olcott, though given a charter for the 
> > > > > Esoteric Section in the East,
> > > > > chose to have nothing to do with it. A B in 
> > > > > England and Europe, chose at
> > > > > first to fully assist judge, but then fell 
> > > > > (under one of the 'tests' of
> > > > > chelaship, under a Brahman's dark psychic 
> > > > > influence, and the psychic
> > > > > phenomena he produced, and the hints he 
> > > > > advanced stating that she ought to
> > > > > begin to doubt HPB's Masters and Judge's 
> > > > > direct connections to Them, and
> > > > > their sincerity. More confusion. A B 
> > > > > discovered Olcott had the same kind
> > > > > of doubts. They joined forces apparently, to 
> > > > > open the "Judge Case." .
> > > > >
> > > > > All the rest followed -- fired by the single 
> > > > > fact that never can the
> > > > > "esoteric" be proved or demonstrated by the 
> > > > > exoteric.
> > > > >
> > > > > No one can PROVE the esoteric to anyone 
> > > > > else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Each has to discover it IN HIMSELF: 
> > > > > ATMA-BUDDHI the IMMORTAL HIGHER SELF.
> > > > >
> > > > > The BUDDHI-MANAS is the MORAL INDIVIDUAL the 
> > > > > ETERNAL Monad in incarnation.
> > > > >
> > > > > All the virtues have to be lived openly and 
> > > > > observed practically.
> > > > >
> > > > > No personal claims have any value.
> > > > >
> > > > > I write the above, it being only my opinion 
> > > > > of the matters based on facts
> > > > > adduced.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best wishes,
> > > > >
> > > > > Dallas
> > > > >
> > > > > ==========================================================
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: carlosaveline
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 8:19 AM
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Socrates' Higher Self or "Nous"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dallas, Friends,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > H. P. Blavatsky writes in "Isis Unveiled":
> > > > >
> > > > > �The daemonium of Socrates was his nous 
> > > > > [in Greek in the original], mind,
> > > > > spirit, or understanding of the divine in 
> > > > > it. �The nous [in Greek in the
> > > > > original] of Socrates�, says Plutarch, 
> > > > > �was pure and mixed itself with the
> > > > > body no more than necessity required.... 
> > > > > (...) The part that is plunged into
> > > > > the body is called soul. But the 
> > > > > incorruptible part is called the nous and
> > > > > the vulgar think it is within them, as they 
> > > > > likewise imagine the image from
> > > > > a glass [ that is, a mirror ] to be in that 
> > > > > glass. But the more intelligent,
> > > > > who know it to be without, call it a 
> > > > > Daemon� (a god, a Spirit).� (1)
> > > > >
> > > > > And in the �Mahatma Letters�, this 
> > > > > statement is confirmed. Writing about
> > > > > the seventh and sixth principles of human 
> > > > > consciousness, which form one�s
> > > > > Monad or higher self, an Adept-Teachers 
> > > > > explains:
> > > > >
> > > > > �Neither Atma or Buddhi ever were within 
> > > > > man, a little metaphisical axiom
> > > > > that you can study with advantage in 
> > > > > Plutarch and Anaxagoras. The latter
> > > > > made his [ Greek words for �nous� ] the 
> > > > > spirit self-potent, the nous that
> > > > > alone recognized noumena whhile the former 
> > > > > taught on the authority of Plato
> > > > > and Pythagoras that the semomnius or this 
> > > > > nous always remained without the
> > > > > body; that it floated and overshadowed so to 
> > > > > say the extreme part of the
> > > > > man�s head, it is only the vulgar who 
> > > > > think it is within them.� (2)
> > > > >
> > > > > In the Christian tradition, the aureoles 
> > > > > above the heads of Saints, in
> > > > > their portraits, are unconscious references 
> > > > > to this fact. (3)
> > > > >
> > > > > So Socrates� Daimon was his own higher 
> > > > > self, Monad, Atma-Buddhi.
> > > > > Best regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline
> > > > >
> > > > > NOTES:
> > > > >
> > > > > (1) �Isis Unveiled�, H. P. Blavatsky, 
> > > > > T.U.P., Pasadena, CA, USA, 1988,
> > > > > Volume II, 284-285.
> > > > >
> > > > > (2) �The Mahatma Letters to A. P. 
> > > > > Sinnett�, T.U.P., Letter CXXVII, p. 455
> > > > > (Letter 72 in the chronological edition, 
> > > > > TPH, Philippines).
> > > > >
> > > > > (3) About the aureoles, see �Mahatma 
> > > > > Letters�, T.U.P., Letter XXIII-B,
> > > > > item 9. (Letter 93-B, chronological 
> > > > > edition).
> > > > >
> > > > > ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > De:"W.Dallas TenBroeck" 
> > > > > dalval14@earthlink.net
> > > > >
> > > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > > C�pia:
> > > > >
> > > > > Data:Fri, 26 May 2006 07:59:59 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > > Assunto:[Spam] RE: Socrates
> > > > >
> > > > > > 5/26/2006 7:58 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Friends:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having appreciation for Ken's view (below)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Could these ideas also be considered?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > INNER EGO.DOC
> > > > > > ===============
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > November 9, 2005
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are a number of terms used here and 
> > > > > > one ought to go to the
> > > > > > THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY to secure more 
> > > > > > accurate description of them. That is
> > > > > > the starting base we all need. Next would 
> > > > > > be to go to the SECRET DOCTRINE
> > > > > > INDEX and look up all the references that 
> > > > > > throw light on this subject. It
> > > > > > is best that each student do this work for 
> > > > > > himself -- there are no
> > > > > > "short-cuts."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Allow me to offer this to be checked out 
> > > > > > and considered:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The SPIRIT (ATMA) which is universal (as 
> > > > > > MAHATMA) already exists as a
> > > > > basis
> > > > > > in every smallest aspect of Nature and 
> > > > > > also in Man, as the ATMA [a "Ray"
> > > > > of
> > > > > > the ABSOLUTE] is the base for the 6 + 3 
> > > > > > other principles which extend
> > > > > > between SPIRIT and the "MATTER." of which 
> > > > > > our physical body is a
> > > > > > representative.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Our Consciousness is ONE. Yet it is said 
> > > > > > to pierce up and down the 7
> > > > > planes
> > > > > > of being and serves to uphold the memory 
> > > > > > of the Souls' experience on any
> > > > > > plane and in every state. The vehicle USED 
> > > > > > BY THIS One Consciousness on
> > > > > > any plane or any state of matter, depends 
> > > > > > on the effort made by the
> > > > > > Individual to refine and purify the matter 
> > > > > > that he uses there in each of
> > > > > > those states or planes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It seems that our personal life always 
> > > > > > shields and secretes the moral
> > > > > > Chooser who is the eternal PERCEIVER 
> > > > > > [ATMA-BUDDHI] that resides within. It
> > > > > > is the employer of the human Mind 
> > > > > > [BUDDHI-MANAS], the Psyche [KAMA-MANAS]
> > > > > > and Astral-Physical body as its 
> > > > > > amanuensis. [And these in turn are
> > > > > composed
> > > > > > of innumerable immortal Monads, each at 
> > > > > > its appropriate position in this
> > > > > > enormous and all encompassing evolutionary 
> > > > > > scheme [ see S D I 632 ] -- a
> > > > > > scheme that is based on an individual 
> > > > > > balance point of exactitude so
> > > > > > sensitive, that any and all deviations 
> > > > > > from harmony reverberate throughout
> > > > > > the vast whole and affect the advance of 
> > > > > > all the rest.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If this is true, then nothing is 
> > > > > > unimportant. The "Moment of Choice" is
> > > > > > always Now, and is a moral imperative 
> > > > > > which no one can escape.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is the "magic" or, the WISDOM of the 
> > > > > > esoteric or that which is called
> > > > > > "occult wisdom," and, we may try to begin 
> > > > > > to grasp some of its parameters.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One might consider that the real "magic" 
> > > > > > is wisdom and is obtained from
> > > > > > within, shunning any exoteric practices or 
> > > > > > "selfish black-magic"
> > > > > whatsoever.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > By focusing on the Divine ATMA within, we 
> > > > > > allow the spirit-Life (Jiva) of
> > > > > > Divine Universal Compassion and Love to 
> > > > > > work in us and then we may diffuse
> > > > >
> > > > > > it amidst neighbours. kin and the rest of 
> > > > > > humankind. We may, without
> > > > > > personal expectations, serve the processes 
> > > > > > of the great Law of Karma.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What is TRUTH for us the "embodied minds"? 
> > > > > > Is it an endless quest ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If one takes Karma and Reincarnation into 
> > > > > > account, and the concept that
> > > > > the
> > > > > > REAL MAN is an eternal Monad, the paradox 
> > > > > > unravels.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > An immortal being [Monad (Atma-Buddhi), 
> > > > > > such as we all are fundamentally
> > > > > > is not concerned with time -- as it uses 
> > > > > > many bodies in which to assist
> > > > > any
> > > > > > brother Monad (as a reference source) to 
> > > > > > "perfect" its own Wisdom. This
> > > > > for
> > > > > >
> > > > > > it, is true independence - without losing 
> > > > > > any of its own heard-earned
> > > > > wisdom
> > > > > > and responsibility, it seeks to make of 
> > > > > > its organism a useful helper in
> > > > > > Nature�s continual struggle to provide 
> > > > > > an equilibrated, harmonious flow of
> > > > > > existence, and assist
> > > > > > in the process of general evolution. This 
> > > > > > is brotherhood in action.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It seems to be based on the free gift of 
> > > > > > mutual assistance and service. An
> > > > > > example of this kind of sublime SERVICE is 
> > > > > > offered to us to consider in
> > > > > > SECRET DOCTRINE, Vol. I, pp. 207-210. 
> > > > > > There the nature, function and
> > > > > > devotion of a Planetary Spirit is 
> > > > > > described.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > An impersonal channel of Karma is opened 
> > > > > > by acting for a just desire, when
> > > > > > that is seen in another Yogi�s mind. No 
> > > > > > personal benefit or acquisition is
> > > > > > expected.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This effort marks the evolution and 
> > > > > > progress of Nature and the important
> > > > > > service that each human performs in this 
> > > > > > process.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Consider the task as outlined in the 
> > > > > > SECRET DOCTRINE :
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is the process of lifting the whole 
> > > > > > mass of "matter" up to the
> > > > > > condition, nature and stature of CONSCIOUS 
> > > > > > GOD-HOOD.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is the "gift of mind" passed on by the 
> > > > > > original and primordial Dhyanis
> > > > > > to the host of Monads that are "ready." 
> > > > > > Are they thus not encouraged to
> > > > > > assume again the true "Gods" that they 
> > > > > > were before they plunged
> > > > > > voluntarily again into the experiences of 
> > > > > > diversified material existence
> > > > > > (consisting of those Monads which are now 
> > > > > > entering the period and process
> > > > > of
> > > > > > a self-willed development of Manas) where 
> > > > > > the "maya" of illusion (desires,
> > > > > > feelings, passions - Kama makes all that 
> > > > > > is real appear evanescent and
> > > > > > seemingly incomprehensible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It appears, when presented with an event 
> > > > > > or a report, we ought to ask:
> > > > > "What
> > > > > > caused this ? What Laws are involved? Why 
> > > > > > am I involved? What should be
> > > > > > the ideal reaction?" -- In other words, we 
> > > > > > have to universalize and
> > > > > > impersonalize our concepts. One of the 
> > > > > > best guides will be fund in the
> > > > > > close study of PATANJALI'S YOGA SUTRAS 
> > > > > > translated by Mr. W. Q. Judge, and
> > > > > > The VOICE OF THE SILENCE by H P B . These 
> > > > > > cause us to delve into causes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Shall we say: One of the problems is now 
> > > > > > identified. How do we, as
> > > > > > embodied
> > > > > > Minds, forced to work in and use a brain 
> > > > > > of matter [living Monads], view
> > > > > the
> > > > > > period and
> > > > > > condition of our existence beyond the 
> > > > > > birth and death of the personality
> > > > > it
> > > > > > is now
> > > > > > living in.? It becomes clear that the 
> > > > > > Personality of this present
> > > > > existence
> > > > > > has limits to its memories and views, but 
> > > > > > no limits to its intuitive
> > > > > > potentials. These it derives from the 
> > > > > > immortal and universal fund of
> > > > > > "wisdom"
> > > > > > BUDDHI. Buddhi-Manas is then the "link."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We may well ask ourselves: "How did I 
> > > > > > derive the knowledge, character and
> > > > > > capacities I have surrounding me, the 
> > > > > > Perceiver and the Thinker, as my
> > > > > > abilities and disabilities? We can 
> > > > > > logically derive their source as having
> > > > > > been fashioned in previous lives.
> 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 
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