Theos-Talk Archives (May 2006 Message tt00885)

Carlos,
With respect, I am convinced that you spent your past lifetime at the feet of Socrates as no amount of evidence will budge you. So be it.

Cass

carlosaveline <carlosaveline@terra.com.br> wrote: Cass,

NOUS is the higher self, and Socrates's Daimon was basically his own NOUS.  

I have been quoting HPB to try to tell you that for a few weeks now. 


Regards,  Carlos. 

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Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

C�pia:

Data:Sun, 28 May 2006 20:51:00 -0700 (PDT)

Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Dallas, Socrates & Subba Row

> I thought Nous, was translated as "good at being a man"? Pure and mixed suggests the duality of higher and lower mind.
> 
> Galileo retracted and wasn't persecuted. Apollonious was not persecuted, he simply vanished.
> Cass
> 
> carlosaveline wrote: Dear Dallas, 
> 
> You quote me: "You ask in conclusion: " So Socrates� Daimon was his own higher self, Monad, Atma-Buddhi."
> 
> Not quite, Dallas. 
> 
> Better then me, let's see, please, H. P. B.'s words:
> 
> �The daemonium of Socrates was his nous [in Greek in the original], mind,
> spirit, or understanding of the divine in it. �The nous [in Greek in the
> original] of Socrates�, says Plutarch, �was pure and mixed itself with the
> body no more than necessity required.... (...) The part that is plunged into
> the body is called soul. But the incorruptible part is called the nous and
> the vulgar think it is within them, as they likewise imagine the image from
> a glass [ that is, a mirror ] to be in that glass. But the more intelligent,
> who know it to be without, call it a Daemon� (a god, a Spirit).� 
> 
> (�Isis Unveiled�, H. P. Blavatsky, T.U.P., Pasadena, CA, USA, 1988, Volume II, 284-285.) 
> 
> Please read "Aplogy of Socrates" and you will see whether Socrates, Plato'sx master, was above his time "Mystery Schools", in Ethics and in Ethics. 
> 
> And remember that persecution is the common lot of sages in all time -- Seneca, Bruno, Galilei, Appolonyus, so many others... 
> 
> The story of Subba Row is quite different. 
> 
> Subba Row died at 34 " et pour cause", as the French saying goes. 
> 
> There were reasons for that. 
> 
> No advanced disciple could do what he did with regard to HPB and the Master's work. Loyal in his heart, he lost his body. OK. 
> 
> Best regards, Carlos. 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> C�pia:
> 
> Data:Sun, 28 May 2006 07:25:16 -0700
> 
> Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World RE: Socrates' Higher Self or "Nous" The E S
> 
> > 5/28/2006 6:18 AM
> > 
> > Dear Carlos:
> > 
> > You ask in conclusion:
> > 
> > " So Socrates� Daimon was his own higher self, Monad, Atma-Buddhi.
> > " 
> > 
> > Let me offer the following thoughts: It seems to me in this case that the
> > personality we know of historically as Socrates had not undergone the
> > process of Lower-Self [Kama-Manas] purification which the "Mystery schools"
> > in Plato's time still made available. 
> > 
> > I believe he was called "mediumistic" and was not therefore in full
> > Buddhi-Manasic control of the highest aspect of his personality
> > (Kama-Manas).
> > 
> > Under the rules then in force in Plato's time (those of the Mystery Schools)
> > he had violated (unknowingly to himself) these by offering openly some items
> > that where still most secret. 
> > 
> > Looking for another and more recent example of this we can find how shocked
> > Subba Row was when he was asked by HPB to review and edit the first pages of
> > the SECRET DOCTRINE -- copied by C. Wachtmeister and sent to him in Mss. at
> > Adyar. 
> > 
> > He (I conclude) must have found himself in conflict with his own pledges of
> > secrecy as a Brahman. Yet it is said he had the same Guru as HPB.
> > Apparently even such advanced chelas as SR have to develop and exert their
> > independent Intuition over such matters . 
> > 
> > [ In any case, we are told that HPB had "special permission" granted to her
> > to reveal facts that had hitherto been kept ESOTERIC -- see ISIS UNVEILED,
> > Vol. II, p. 307 top ]
> > 
> > I will offer an opinion on what happened: 
> > 
> > There is a hint given by HPB, as she says that starting with the E S (1888)
> > a change was given to the direction of exoteric theosophical work [The
> > THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in Adyar and Olcott swayed by the Council, had rejected
> > her (1885) and the Masters directions and methods.] -- and she stated later
> > that she would be solely responsible for the consequences of the changes she
> > would make, and yet, retain fraternal relations with the many sections and
> > branches of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY every one of which she declared to be
> > independent, and united under Col. Olcott, as President for Life. 
> > 
> > She lived for 3 years thereafter, and designated Judge (with 13 years of
> > successful chelaship embodied in him) to carry on and direct the Esoteric
> > Section after her passing. His ability and power in America caused the
> > THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY to expand rapidly and spread to some extent Europe and
> > Australia. Yet he (WQJ) was an ill person and had no desire to usurp Olcott,
> > or to go to Adyar. 
> > 
> > Col. Olcott, though given a charter for the Esoteric Section in the East,
> > chose to have nothing to do with it. A B in England and Europe, chose at
> > first to fully assist judge, but then fell (under one of the 'tests' of
> > chelaship, under a Brahman's dark psychic influence, and the psychic
> > phenomena he produced, and the hints he advanced stating that she ought to
> > begin to doubt HPB's Masters and Judge's direct connections to Them, and
> > their sincerity. More confusion. A B discovered Olcott had the same kind
> > of doubts. They joined forces apparently, to open the "Judge Case." .
> > 
> > All the rest followed -- fired by the single fact that never can the
> > "esoteric" be proved or demonstrated by the exoteric. 
> > 
> > No one can PROVE the esoteric to anyone else. 
> > 
> > Each has to discover it IN HIMSELF: ATMA-BUDDHI the IMMORTAL HIGHER SELF.
> > 
> > The BUDDHI-MANAS is the MORAL INDIVIDUAL the ETERNAL Monad in incarnation.
> > 
> > All the virtues have to be lived openly and observed practically.
> > 
> > No personal claims have any value.
> > 
> > I write the above, it being only my opinion of the matters based on facts
> > adduced.
> > 
> > Best wishes,
> > 
> > Dallas
> > 
> > ==========================================================
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: carlosaveline
> > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 8:19 AM
> > To: 
> > Subject: Socrates' Higher Self or "Nous"
> > 
> > 
> > Dallas, Friends, 
> > 
> > 
> > H. P. Blavatsky writes in "Isis Unveiled": 
> > 
> > �The daemonium of Socrates was his nous [in Greek in the original], mind,
> > spirit, or understanding of the divine in it. �The nous [in Greek in the
> > original] of Socrates�, says Plutarch, �was pure and mixed itself with the
> > body no more than necessity required.... (...) The part that is plunged into
> > the body is called soul. But the incorruptible part is called the nous and
> > the vulgar think it is within them, as they likewise imagine the image from
> > a glass [ that is, a mirror ] to be in that glass. But the more intelligent,
> > who know it to be without, call it a Daemon� (a god, a Spirit).� (1) 
> > 
> > And in the �Mahatma Letters�, this statement is confirmed. Writing about
> > the seventh and sixth principles of human consciousness, which form one�s
> > Monad or higher self, an Adept-Teachers explains:
> > 
> > �Neither Atma or Buddhi ever were within man, a little metaphisical axiom
> > that you can study with advantage in Plutarch and Anaxagoras. The latter
> > made his [ Greek words for �nous� ] the spirit self-potent, the nous that
> > alone recognized noumena whhile the former taught on the authority of Plato
> > and Pythagoras that the semomnius or this nous always remained without the
> > body; that it floated and overshadowed so to say the extreme part of the
> > man�s head, it is only the vulgar who think it is within them.� (2)
> > 
> > In the Christian tradition, the aureoles above the heads of Saints, in
> > their portraits, are unconscious references to this fact. (3) 
> > 
> > So Socrates� Daimon was his own higher self, Monad, Atma-Buddhi. 
> > Best regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline 
> > 
> > NOTES: 
> > 
> > (1) �Isis Unveiled�, H. P. Blavatsky, T.U.P., Pasadena, CA, USA, 1988,
> > Volume II, 284-285. 
> > 
> > (2) �The Mahatma Letters to A. P. Sinnett�, T.U.P., Letter CXXVII, p. 455
> > (Letter 72 in the chronological edition, TPH, Philippines). 
> > 
> > (3) About the aureoles, see �Mahatma Letters�, T.U.P., Letter XXIII-B,
> > item 9. (Letter 93-B, chronological edition). 
> > 
> > ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 
> > 
> > 
> > De:"W.Dallas TenBroeck" dalval14@earthlink.net
> > 
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > C�pia:
> > 
> > Data:Fri, 26 May 2006 07:59:59 -0700
> > 
> > Assunto:[Spam] RE: Socrates
> > 
> > > 5/26/2006 7:58 AM
> > > 
> > > Dear Friends:
> > > 
> > > Having appreciation for Ken's view (below)
> > > 
> > > Could these ideas also be considered?
> > > 
> > > INNER EGO.DOC
> > > ===============
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > November 9, 2005
> > > 
> > > There are a number of terms used here and one ought to go to the 
> > > THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY to secure more accurate description of them. That is
> > > the starting base we all need. Next would be to go to the SECRET DOCTRINE
> > > INDEX and look up all the references that throw light on this subject. It
> > > is best that each student do this work for himself -- there are no
> > > "short-cuts."
> > > 
> > > Allow me to offer this to be checked out and considered:
> > > 
> > > The SPIRIT (ATMA) which is universal (as MAHATMA) already exists as a
> > basis
> > > in every smallest aspect of Nature and also in Man, as the ATMA [a "Ray"
> > of
> > > the ABSOLUTE] is the base for the 6 + 3 other principles which extend
> > > between SPIRIT and the "MATTER." of which our physical body is a
> > > representative.
> > > 
> > > Our Consciousness is ONE. Yet it is said to pierce up and down the 7
> > planes
> > > of being and serves to uphold the memory of the Souls' experience on any
> > > plane and in every state. The vehicle USED BY THIS One Consciousness on
> > > any plane or any state of matter, depends on the effort made by the
> > > Individual to refine and purify the matter that he uses there in each of
> > > those states or planes. 
> > > 
> > > It seems that our personal life always shields and secretes the moral
> > > Chooser who is the eternal PERCEIVER [ATMA-BUDDHI] that resides within. It
> > > is the employer of the human Mind [BUDDHI-MANAS], the Psyche [KAMA-MANAS]
> > > and Astral-Physical body as its amanuensis. [And these in turn are
> > composed
> > > of innumerable immortal Monads, each at its appropriate position in this
> > > enormous and all encompassing evolutionary scheme [ see S D I 632 ] -- a
> > > scheme that is based on an individual balance point of exactitude so
> > > sensitive, that any and all deviations from harmony reverberate throughout
> > > the vast whole and affect the advance of all the rest. 
> > > 
> > > If this is true, then nothing is unimportant. The "Moment of Choice" is
> > > always Now, and is a moral imperative which no one can escape. 
> > > 
> > > This is the "magic" or, the WISDOM of the esoteric or that which is called
> > > "occult wisdom," and, we may try to begin to grasp some of its parameters.
> > 
> > > 
> > > One might consider that the real "magic" is wisdom and is obtained from
> > > within, shunning any exoteric practices or "selfish black-magic"
> > whatsoever.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > By focusing on the Divine ATMA within, we allow the spirit-Life (Jiva) of 
> > > Divine Universal Compassion and Love to work in us and then we may diffuse
> > 
> > > it amidst neighbours. kin and the rest of humankind. We may, without
> > > personal expectations, serve the processes of the great Law of Karma.
> > > 
> > > What is TRUTH for us the "embodied minds"? Is it an endless quest ?
> > > 
> > > If one takes Karma and Reincarnation into account, and the concept that
> > the
> > > REAL MAN is an eternal Monad, the paradox unravels.
> > > 
> > > An immortal being [Monad (Atma-Buddhi), such as we all are fundamentally 
> > > is not concerned with time -- as it uses many bodies in which to assist
> > any 
> > > brother Monad (as a reference source) to "perfect" its own Wisdom. This
> > for
> > > 
> > > it, is true independence - without losing any of its own heard-earned
> > wisdom
> > > and responsibility, it seeks to make of its organism a useful helper in
> > > Nature�s continual struggle to provide an equilibrated, harmonious flow of
> > > existence, and assist 
> > > in the process of general evolution. This is brotherhood in action. 
> > > 
> > > It seems to be based on the free gift of mutual assistance and service. An
> > > example of this kind of sublime SERVICE is offered to us to consider in
> > > SECRET DOCTRINE, Vol. I, pp. 207-210. There the nature, function and
> > > devotion of a Planetary Spirit is described. 
> > > 
> > > An impersonal channel of Karma is opened by acting for a just desire, when
> > > that is seen in another Yogi�s mind. No personal benefit or acquisition is
> > > expected.
> > > 
> > > This effort marks the evolution and progress of Nature and the important
> > > service that each human performs in this process. 
> > > 
> > > Consider the task as outlined in the SECRET DOCTRINE :
> > > 
> > > It is the process of lifting the whole mass of "matter" up to the
> > > condition, nature and stature of CONSCIOUS GOD-HOOD. 
> > > 
> > > It is the "gift of mind" passed on by the original and primordial Dhyanis 
> > > to the host of Monads that are "ready." Are they thus not encouraged to 
> > > assume again the true "Gods" that they were before they plunged 
> > > voluntarily again into the experiences of diversified material existence
> > > (consisting of those Monads which are now entering the period and process
> > of
> > > a self-willed development of Manas) where the "maya" of illusion (desires,
> > > feelings, passions - Kama makes all that is real appear evanescent and
> > > seemingly incomprehensible. 
> > > 
> > > It appears, when presented with an event or a report, we ought to ask:
> > "What
> > > caused this ? What Laws are involved? Why am I involved? What should be
> > > the ideal reaction?" -- In other words, we have to universalize and
> > > impersonalize our concepts. One of the best guides will be fund in the
> > > close study of PATANJALI'S YOGA SUTRAS translated by Mr. W. Q. Judge, and
> > > The VOICE OF THE SILENCE by H P B . These cause us to delve into causes.
> > > 
> > > Shall we say: One of the problems is now identified. How do we, as
> > > embodied
> > > Minds, forced to work in and use a brain of matter [living Monads], view
> > the
> > > period and
> > > condition of our existence beyond the birth and death of the personality
> > it
> > > is now
> > > living in.? It becomes clear that the Personality of this present
> > existence
> > > has limits to its memories and views, but no limits to its intuitive
> > > potentials. These it derives from the immortal and universal fund of
> > > "wisdom" 
> > > BUDDHI. Buddhi-Manas is then the "link." 
> > > 
> > > We may well ask ourselves: "How did I derive the knowledge, character and
> > > capacities I have surrounding me, the Perceiver and the Thinker, as my
> > > abilities and disabilities? We can logically derive their source as having
> > > been fashioned in previous lives. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Theoretically, may we consider: our INDIVIDUALITY (ATMA-BUDDHI-MANAS)
> > > periodically illuminates (when appealed to) with its wisdom the
> > Personality
> > > -- when this latter seeks for DIVINE WISDOM. All true wisdom comes from
> > > within. I (our INDIVIDUALITY) is one with the UNIVERSAL OCEAN of BUDDHIC
> > > WISDOM which are manifesting through the great LAWS of KARMA, Evolution
> > > and Eternal Life.
> > > 
> > > Because our embodied mind is a spark of the UNIVERSAL MIND [or MAHAT] --
> > > which is an attribute of the ABSOLUTE, there are no barriers that it
> > cannot
> > > traverse or planes that it may link to, as needed.
> > > 
> > > We find it taught that the records of the great Buddha's teachings show us
> > > that our present limitations and incapacities are explained by the concept
> > > of "universal MAYA" -- when the UNIVERSE is in its temporary phase of
> > > "manifestation." The "vestures" come and go as ages of experience pass by
> > > and we work in and through them - the SELF is always stable and ONE with
> > the
> > > WHOLE. But why does this occur? Is not the concept of mutual assistance
> > and
> > > cooperation, bathed in the light of COMPASSION ABSOLUTE, a good basic
> > > reason? 
> > > 
> > > The "maya" is dispersed by the (wisdom) innate to the BUDDHI principle
> > (when
> > > linked to MANAS). Every component of Nature (the UNIVERSE in
> > manifestation)
> > > has this as a part of its essential constitution. 
> > > 
> > > If we can consider using the designation Monad for these innumerable
> > > constituents, and grasp the concept that they are of seven "grades" of
> > > "primordial differentiation," [S D I 570-575] then the Monad that is in
> > > the human stage (or grade), is at present undergoing the trials and
> > > tribulations of self-mastery, self-knowledge and learning the unlimited
> > > extent of its true responsibility.
> > > 
> > > To consider that the UNIVERSE, as radiated from the ABSOLUTE operates
> > under
> > > universal, immutable and compassionate LAWS cannot be demeaning to any
> > > Monad, since each is a radiation of the same qualities from that one
> > single
> > > source? Is it not, for itself, in its essence, an administrator of the
> > same
> > > universal impersonal and altruistic LAWS? 
> > > 
> > > Are we not also faced with a seeming paradox, as the material of which our
> > > evanescent and mayavic forms are composed are themselves Monads each in
> > its
> > > own level and place of perfect need. How is this to be regulated in such
> > an
> > > incomprehensibly vast SPACE where incomprehensibly small units swarm? --
> > > Unless each is both a mirror of the grand WHOLE, and in itself, is a
> > > UNIVERSE to still more minute forms and aspects of LIFE ? 
> > > 
> > > It seems this ever existent balancing point of consciousness, intelligence
> > > and progress synthesizes the actual work that a period of Manvantaric
> > > evolution for the entire WHOLE demands. No wonder that a grasp and
> > > comprehension of this as a pattern, a schema, a living WORK is startling
> > and
> > > almost incomprehensible as our present brain-mind equipment is very much
> > > attached to our recent personalities and their very limited experience
> > this
> > > life around. 
> > > 
> > > It seems that what we (as human minds) are discovering this fact and
> > > beginning to acquire a concept of how responsible we actually are. We not
> > > only receive our "karma," but as Spiritual beings, resident in material
> > > forms, we are also one of the many out-posts of KARMA - and thus we
> > > represent the ever-active LAW of cooperation, benevolence and BROTHERHOOD.
> > 
> > > 
> > > "There is only one Perceiver [ATMA-BUDDHI]; the sights are modified by the
> > > channels [ principles ] through which the Perceiver looks...
> > > 
> > > The power of seeing is the Soul [BUDDHI-MANAS] the power of the Soul [
> > > CHOICE, DISCRIMINATION, WILL ] goes into the seeing, hence what It "sees"
> > > are to it real, because seen; as sights, each is a reality; 
> > > but the nature of the Soul is different from any and all "sights." 
> > > 
> > > A study of the seven-fold Constitution of Man finds that there is of
> > > necessity a constant definition of the relations between any one
> > "principle"
> > > and the rest, which serve in several cooperative relations to it. Some
> > > duplication of references is inevitable. Interactions constantly occur.
> > > 
> > > The following references to Buddhi and its function as an active link
> > > between Atma and Manas in man. They are Buddhi made "active." It has a
> > > "passive" aspect as the `vehicle� (sheath, kosha, sthula) of Atma, without

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