Theos-Talk Archives (May 2006 Message tt00841)

Dear Daniel and Bruce,


I guess Daniel says, quoting HPB: 


"...Holloway WAS SENT, and was in the programme of trials and 
DESTRUCTION. She has done you ten times more harm than to the 
Society but this is your fault entirely...." caps added

OK. No doubt. Yet one should take into consideration that the condition od the disciple WHILE FALLING is one, and AFTER FALL may be paradoxically much better.   Ms. Holloway fell as a disciple on probation.  She seems to have recover her balance afterwards, when NOT under the tremendous pressure of discipleship (not Lay Discipleship in her case).  

Let's see another example.  During his lay discipleship, Mr. Hume got under terrible influences.  A few years after he dcropped the theosophical movement, he recovered balance and founded the Congress Party in India,  a probably useful thing to do.  Hume immediately  stopped attacking the movement after he left it -- as long as I know. 

So we should see that "FALLING" as a Disciple, or fallling as a Lay Disciple,  is NOT  the same thing as the "death of the soul",  and does NOT  mean any terrible damnation of the soul to the Christian Eternal Hell. 

It is only a deep and  bitter lesson top learn.   Subba Row's  half-failure is another example.

It is very important to see that discipleship failure in one life does not mean eternal comdemnation to the Christian Burning Hell -- that nice Theologian Fiction which used to be used to scare little children into behaving "well".     


Best regards,   Carlos Cardoso Aveline.  


De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Sun, 28 May 2006 03:59:11 -0000

Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: Mrs. Holloway and Mr. Judge

> Bruce,
> 
> You write:
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
> That being said, perhaps you could provide the relevant passages from
> Carrithers where he makes his arguments for the case that the Masters
> are referring to Holloway. I am not at the stage yet where I want to
> accept on authority any theosophical historian.
> -------------------------------------------------
> 
> I assume you are referring to what H.P.B. wrote in the 
> following "private letter" {!}:
> 
> "...The first bomb-shell from the Dugpa world came from America; you
> welcomed and warmed it in your own breast. . . . The Dugpa element
> triumphed fully at one time -- why? because you believed in one
> [Laura Holloway] who WAS SENT by the opposing powers for the
> DESTRUCTION of the [Theosophical] Society and permitted to act as
> she and others did by the 'higher powers,' as you call them, whose
> duty it was not to interfere in the great probation save at the last
> moment. To this day you are unable to say what was true, what
> false...." The Mahatma Letters, No. 141. [in first 3 editions of MLs]
> caps added.
> 
> I will not quote from Mr. Carrither's paper on this since it is 
> still unpublished. I refer to Mr. Carrither's papers on the Judge 
> Case. Hopefully within the next year or two we will publish this 
> material.
> 
> But off the top of my head, take what HPB said in the above
> quoted letter which dates from early 1886 and compare it to what
> she wrote in Mahatma Letter 139. (in first 3 editions of MLs)
> 
> In the Chrono. ed. of THE MAHATMA LETTERS, you will find these two
> letters as Letters 140 and 141. On page 462 of Letter 141 which is 
> the FOLLOWUP letter to Letter 140 (where the above words about the 
> Dupga-world will be found), HPB writes to Mr. Sinnett:
> 
> "...Holloway WAS SENT, and was in the programme of trials and 
> DESTRUCTION. She has done you ten times more harm than to the 
> Society but this is your fault entirely...." caps added
> 
> Compare the words in caps in this letter with what HPB said in the 
> other letter.
> 
> I don't think we have to make too much of a leap to conclude that 
> Holloway is probably the individual referred to in the earlier 
> letter by HPB:
> 
> "...[Laura Holloway] who was sent by the opposing powers for the
> destruction of the [Theosophical] Society...."
> 
> And reread once again what Mahatma KH wrote in these two private 
> [!!] letters:
> 
> Here is what Master K.H. wrote about Mrs. Holloway and her
> connection with elementaries:
> 
> "You cannot acquire psychic power until the causes of psychic
> debility are removed. Your trouble is, that you "cannot take in" the
> doctrine of shells. You have scarcely learned the elements of self-
> control in psychism; your vivid creative imagination evokes illusive
> creatures, coined the instant before in the mint of your mind;
> unknown to yourself. As yet you have not acquired the exact method
> of detecting the false from the true, since you have not yet
> comprehended the doctrine of shells.
> 
> "Whether you sit for friends in America or London, or elsewhere as
> medium — though you now hate the word — or seeress, or revelator,
> since you have scarcely learned the elements of self-control, in
> psychism, you must suffer bad consequences. You draw to yourself the
> nearest and strongest influences — often evil — and absorb them, and
> are psychically stifled or narcotised by them. The airs become
> peopled with resuscitated phantoms."
> 
> "….How can you know the real from the unreal, the true from the
> false? Only by self-development. How get that? By first carefully
> guarding yourself against the causes of self-deception, and chief
> among them, the holding of intercourse with elementaries as before,
> whether to please friends (?), or gratify your own curiosity."
> Letter 17,
> http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hollowayml.htm
> 
> In another STILL unpublished letter from Master K.H. to Madame
> Blavatsky, he writes the following concerning Mrs. Holloway:
> 
> "She labors under the very kind but erroneous & injurious notion
> that since she has done it (consoling the elementaries) ALL HER
> LIFE – she cannot be doing wrong in continuing to do so. Fatal
> error! She has, she does wrong, a most serious one to herself: for
> she has thereby been for years systematically destroying her health.
> This relationship during the course of which the unclean shells have
> been constantly absorbing a part of her vitality brought her to
> become the highly nervous & sickly sensitive. The more they are
> encouraged the more serious it comes for her, & they may even kill
> her if she heeds us not.
> 
> "And let her be impressed with the fact that whenever she thinks she
> sees a chela appearing with, or seeming to take an interest, or show
> any connection with those astral vampires – she yields simply to the
> cunning & crafty ways of the Shells. No Gelukpa chela ever meddles
> with the earth-bound remnants of humanity, nor will any of our chela
> [s] – high or law – encourage such an intercourse by his
> presence. . . ." caps added.
> 
> And it should be noted that later in articles in THE WORD magazine, 
> Laura Holloway was careful FOR HER PUBLIC RECORD not to include the 
> Master's specific words warning her about her own mediumship and the 
> detrimental effect of her contact with the elementaries.
> 
> "You draw to yourself the nearest and strongest influences — often 
> EVIL...." 
> 
> But I realize that you may not want to consider all of this since it 
> occurs in private correspondence.
> 
> But other readers may want to consult the following webpage for some 
> of this correspondence:
> 
> http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hollowayml.htm
> 
> And in the very near future I will publish a book with all this 
> correspondence and even more private letters.
> 
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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