Theos-Talk Archives (May 2006 Message tt00832)

Daniel,

Most of your questions can be answered in my post:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/33702

There I make clear the difference between this one page of strung
together Holloway-quotes and a work such as "The Judge Case" that
starts from the public record and goes behind the curtain to draw
things into that record in order to exonerate Judge's reputation from
the unsubstantiated charges made against him.  When you look at "The
Judge Case" you should ask why it was written.   Setting straight the
historical record is really a byproduct of the more important work of
compassion, providing the evidence needed to exonerate Judge.  To the
extent that Olcott, Besant, and Khandalavala were dragged into the
evidence, it must be seen as done strictly to right a wrong.  The book
was not an attack on anyone, it was defensive in nature, dealing with
the culprits only to the extant necessary to defend Judge.  Judge did
not asked to be attacked, however, once attacked he cannot be blamed
for using every honorable means available to protect himself, nor can
Pelletier be blamed for his defence.

That being said, perhaps you could provide the relevant passages from
Carrithers where he makes his arguments for the case that the Masters
are referring to Holloway.  I am not at the stage yet where I want to
accept on authority any theosophical historian.

Bruce

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "danielhcaldwell"
<danielhcaldwell@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Bruce,
> 
> You write:
> 
> "I do wonder why you want to attribute the very last paragraph as 
> being about Laura Holloway?"
> 
> Putting the puzzle pieces together it is reasonable to conclude that 
> HPB was referring to Mrs. Holloway.  
> 
> And the Theosophical historian Walter A. Carrithers, Jr. also 
> considered Mrs. Holloway as the person HPB was writing about. 
> 
> Considering the history, the context, etc. etc, how many likely 
> candidates are there?
> 
> If it wasn't Mrs. Holloway, then can you suggest who it might have 
> been??  
> 
> You also remark:
> 
> "...it seems we are once again trying to go behind the curtain, 
> string together private letters and try to speculate what they might 
> mean all to the detriment of the reputation of Laura Holloway."
> 
> Well is it somehow "wrong" to try to go behind the curtain?
> 
> What is wrong with stringing together private letters??
> 
> In THE JUDGE CASE, doesn't Ernest Pelletier try to go behind the 
> curtain?
> 
> Doesn't he try to string together private letters as well as public 
> documents?
> 
> And doesn't he try to speculate what all these documents might mean?
> 
> Historians do that all the time.... last time I checked.
> 
> And some reader might even suggest that Pelletier does all that to 
> the "detriment" of Mrs. Besant, Col. Olcott and Judge Khandalavala.
>   
> But IF Pelletier is trying to set the historical record straight, if 
> he is trying to determine what really happened, then I see nothing  
> wrong with all that he did.  
> 
> So the same with the material on Mrs. Holloway and Mr. Judge.  
> 
> Or is this topic somehow off limits????
> 
> FOHAT published the Holloway article on Judge.  I assume the editors 
> considered the article of some kind of value.
> 
> I would suggest that the material I cited might help the interested 
> reader to assess the validity of what Mrs. Holloway writes about, 
> etc.
> 
> Certainly the KH letters about Mrs. Holloway are important and might 
> throw some light on the subject, don't you agree?
> 
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "robert_b_macd" 
> <robert.b.macdonald@> wrote:
> >
> > Daniel,
> > 
> > I have not seen some of this material before and don't feel
> > comfortable commenting on it at this time, but I do wonder why you
> > want to attribute the very last paragraph as being about Laura
> > Holloway?  Was this made obvious in some other correspondence?  Are
> > you saying that LH was a conscious agent of Dugpas or are we 
> looking
> > at some weaker sense wherein her lifetime of dabbling in mediumship
> > made her a valuable tool for some sort of TS test?  I am not sure 
> what
> > you are trying to say.  Whatever it is, it seems we are once again
> > trying to go behind the curtain, string together private letters 
> and
> > try to speculate what they might mean all to the detriment of the
> > reputation of Laura Holloway.  Is this necessary?  What will it 
> prove?
> > 
> > Bruce
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "danielhcaldwell"
> > <danielhcaldwell@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Mrs. Holloway and Mr. Judge
> > > 
> > > [Excerpted from an unpublished manuscript]
> > > 
> > > In early April 1884, W.Q. Judge writes from Paris to Mrs. Laura 
> > > Holloway:
> > > 
> > > "…For several days, until yesterday, I have had the most awful 
> blues 
> > > that ever were. So bad indeed that H. P. B. was very much 
> worried. 
> > > It seemed impossible to stave them off, and as they were 
> accompanied 
> > > with an uncontrollable desire to weep, I was in a bad way. 
> > > 
> > > "She said I had got into my past current, and also that in going 
> > > about I HAD ABSORBED SOME OLD ELEMENTARIES which SHE SAW about 
> me. 
> > > 
> > > "She gave me to wear all day her talisman ring, which is of 
> great 
> > > value and strength. It has a double triangle and the Sanscrit 
> > > for `life' on it. THIS HELPED ME, but all the while I felt that 
> > > something was to be done by me. . . . "  caps added.
> > > 
> > > H.P. Blavatsky elsewhere gives a graphic description of 
> elementaries 
> > > and what SHE COULD SEE:
> > > 
> > > "....It stands to reason that this mere earthly refuse, 
> irresistibly 
> > > drawn to the earth, cannot follow the soul and spirit — these 
> > > highest principles of man's being. With horror and disgust I 
> often 
> > > observed how a reanimated shadow of this kind separated itself 
> from 
> > > the inside of the medium; how, separating itself from his astral 
> > > body and clad in someone else's vesture, it pretended to be 
> > > someone's relation, causing the person to go into ecstasies and 
> > > making people open wide their hearts and their embraces to these 
> > > shadows whom they sincerely believed to be their dear fathers 
> and 
> > > brothers, resuscitated to convince them of life eternal, as well 
> as 
> > > to see them... Oh, if they only knew the truth, if they only 
> > > believed! If they saw, as I have often seen, a monstrous, 
> bodiless 
> > > creature seizing hold of someone present at these spiritistic 
> > > sorceries! It wraps the man as if with a black shroud, and 
> slowly 
> > > disappears in him as if drawn into his body by each of his 
> living 
> > > pores." A letter to one of her relatives in Russia.
> > > 
> > > It should also be remembered that during the previous year 
> (1883)  
> > > Mr. Judge had been CLOSELY  associated with Mrs. Laura Holloway 
> in 
> > > Brooklyn, New York.
> > > 
> > > Laura Holloway revealed years later the following:
> > > 
> > > "For many years there was a small group of people who met each 
> > > Sabbath evening in the home of one of their number for the 
> purposes 
> > > of social and spiritual recreation. They were people who 
> earnestly 
> > > desired to know aright, all that each could learn and whose 
> right to 
> > > receive wisdom was based upon their willingness to impart what 
> of 
> > > light they had already gained by persistent and well-directed 
> > > effort."
> > > 
> > > "Into this friendly circle Mr. Judge was early admitted as one 
> who 
> > > was far ahead of his associates in philosophic and metaphysical 
> > > studies. He was an addition to the group highly appreciated and 
> he 
> > > was often moved by gratitude to express his thanks for the ready 
> > > sympathy and good fellowship he enjoyed. At the period to which 
> > > allusion is now being made, he was not a robust man, but was 
> > > suffering from the effects of a fever contracted while on a trip 
> in 
> > > South America; mentally he was at his best, and socially he was 
> a 
> > > witty, companionable person, sometimes gay, always agreeable, 
> and 
> > > ever eager to talk on the subject of Theosophy. . . . "
> > > 
> > > "Among the individuals that composed this group was a nature 
> [Laura 
> > > Holloway herself] that had some natural but untrained gifts of 
> > > clairvoyance, and to this one Mr. Judge gave more of his 
> confidence 
> > > than to the others -- not thereby robbing them, but, NEEDING THE 
> > > ASSISTANCE THIS PSYCHIC COULD SOMETIMES GIVE HIM, he revealed 
> more 
> > > of his mind to that one. But each and all shared alike in all 
> > > the `visions' seen and reported, and between them all, there 
> grew to 
> > > be a STRONG MAGNETIC TIE, which united them in their 
> investigations, 
> > > and held them together in spirit, as long as they lived." The 
> Word, 
> > > November 1915. Caps added.
> > > 
> > > Here is what Master K.H. wrote about Mrs. Holloway and her 
> > > connection with elementaries:
> > > 
> > > "You cannot acquire psychic power until the causes of psychic 
> > > debility are removed. Your trouble is, that you "cannot take in" 
> the 
> > > doctrine of shells. You have scarcely learned the elements of 
> self-
> > > control in psychism; your vivid creative imagination evokes 
> illusive 
> > > creatures, coined the instant before in the mint of your mind; 
> > > unknown to yourself. As yet you have not acquired the exact 
> method 
> > > of detecting the false from the true, since you have not yet 
> > > comprehended the doctrine of shells. 
> > > 
> > > "Whether you sit for friends in America or London, or elsewhere 
> as 
> > > medium — though you now hate the word — or seeress, or 
> revelator, 
> > > since you have scarcely learned the elements of self-control, in 
> > > psychism, you must suffer bad consequences. You draw to yourself 
> the 
> > > nearest and strongest influences — often evil — and absorb them, 
> and 
> > > are psychically stifled or narcotised by them. The airs become 
> > > peopled with resuscitated phantoms."
> > > 
> > > "….How can you know the real from the unreal, the true from the 
> > > false? Only by self-development. How get that? By first 
> carefully 
> > > guarding yourself against the causes of self-deception, and 
> chief 
> > > among them, the holding of intercourse with elementaries as 
> before, 
> > > whether to please friends (?), or gratify your own curiosity."  
> > > Letter 17, 
> > > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hollowayml.htm
> > > 
> > > In another STILL unpublished letter from Master K.H. to Madame 
> > > Blavatsky, he writes the following concerning Mrs. Holloway: 
> > > 
> > > "She labors under the very kind but erroneous & injurious notion 
> > > that since she has done it (consoling the elementaries) ALL HER 
> > > LIFE – she cannot be doing wrong in continuing to do so.  Fatal 
> > > error!  She has, she does wrong, a most serious one to herself:  
> for 
> > > she has thereby been for years systematically destroying her 
> health. 
> > > This relationship during the course of which the unclean shells 
> have 
> > > been constantly absorbing a part of her vitality brought her to 
> > > become the highly nervous & sickly sensitive.  The more they are 
> > > encouraged the more serious it comes for her, & they may even 
> kill 
> > > her if she heeds us not.  
> > > 
> > > "And let her be impressed with the fact that whenever she thinks 
> she 
> > > sees a chela appearing with, or seeming to take an interest, or 
> show 
> > > any connection with those astral vampires – she yields simply to 
> the 
> > > cunning & crafty ways of the Shells.  No Gelukpa  chela ever 
> meddles 
> > > with the earth-bound remnants of humanity, nor will any of our 
> chela
> > > [s] – high or law – encourage such an intercourse by his 
> > > presence. . . ." caps added.
> > > 
> > > In 1886, H.P. Blavatsky gives the following estimation of Mrs. 
> > > Holloway in a letter to A.P. Sinnett:
> > > 
> > > "...The first bomb-shell from the Dugpa world came from America; 
> you 
> > > welcomed and warmed it in your own breast. . . . The Dugpa 
> element 
> > > triumphed fully at one time -- why? because you believed in one 
> > > [Laura Holloway] who was sent by the opposing powers for the 
> > > destruction of the [Theosophical] Society and permitted to act 
> as 
> > > she and others did by the 'higher powers,' as you call them, 
> whose 
> > > duty it was not to interfere in the great probation save at the 
> last 
> > > moment. To this day you are unable to say what was true, what 
> > > false...." The Mahatma Letters, No. 141.
> > >
> >
>