Re: Theos-World SOCRATES' INNER LINK
May 15, 2006 07:17 PM
by Cass Silva
Carlos
I do not think that you can change the goalposts to alter the game. HPB's also was sent to debunk the then current rise in popularity of mediumship, as she says, it cannot lead us anywhere in our spiritual journey, because of the fact that mediums give control of their will to a second party.
Sorry, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Cass
carlosaveline <carlosaveline@terra.com.br> wrote: Cass,
This is an interesting quote, the one you brought (see below).
Yet I beg you to remember how wide was the scope of words with HPB. See her writing about "mediumship" in "Are the Chelas Mediums?"
So the word 'Medium" is much more comprehensive than being merely an automatically derogatory term. (Consider also that her own use of words evolved a lot since "Isis Unveiled").
Now, read this as a demonstration that, according to HPB, Socrates of Athens was not a medium in the spiritst. And the he had an inner, authentic link to the higher.
And this quote was probably written (I can't check it right now) much later then "Isis Unveiled".
HPB writes:
�Julian died for the same crime as Socrates. Both divulged a portion of the solar mystery, the heliocentric system being only a part of what was given during Initiation � one consciously (1) , the other unconsciously, the Greek Sage never having been initiated. It was not the real solar system that was preserved in such secrecy, but the mysteries connected with the Sun�s constitution. Socrates was sentenced to death by earthly and worldly judges; Julian died a violent death because the hitherto protecting hand was withdrawn from him, and, no longer shielded by it, he was simply left to his destiny or Karma. For the student of Occultism there is a suggestive difference between the two kinds of death.� (2)
[And H.P.B. goes on to say that poets often unknowingly capture parts of secrets of initiation, and include these secrets in their verses.]
(�Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky�, TPH, Wheaton, USA, volume XIV, 1985, 733 pp., see pp. 222-223, footnote.)
NOTE:
(1) Roman Emperor Julian, called by the Christians �Julian the Apostate�, was an Initiate in the Mithraic Mysteries, that is, the Mysteries of Mithras (The God of Light and Truth, whose outer vehicle is the Sun).
(2) �Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky�, TPH, Wheaton, USA, volume XIV, 1985, 733 pp., see pp. 222-223, footnote.
De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
C�pia:
Data:Sun, 14 May 2006 21:52:49 -0700 (PDT)
Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Cass, Socrates & Secret Societies
> Hi Carlos
> Yes, we have had this discussion before, let me quote HPB
> "The old Grecian (Socrates) was a "medium"' hence, he had never been initiated into the Mysteries; for such was the rigorous law. But he had his "familiar spirit" as they call it, his daimonion; and this invisible counsellor became the cause of his death. It is generally believed that if he was not initiated into the Mysteries it was because he himself neglected to become so. But the "Secret Records' teach us that it was because he could not be admitted to participate in the sacred rites, and precisely, as we state, on account of his mediumship." Isis P117, Book 2
>
> Cheers
> Cass
>
> carlosaveline wrote: Cass,
>
> Actually, it is the other way around.
>
> Perhaps you did not see a posting by me in which I quote HPB saying that Socrates of Athens had an inner link, independently from outer links to physical organizations and "initiations". He was not an initiate on the physical plane. He was above that.
>
> I also quoted HPB on Julian, the Roman Emperor, who yes, was initiated to organized Mysteries, but also had the inner, independent link. I can bring the postings with all due references on that if you want.
>
>
> Regards, Carlos.
>
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>
> C�pia:
>
> Data:Sat, 13 May 2006 17:17:03 -0700 (PDT)
>
> Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World To Cass on Secret Societies
>
> > Socrates may have been an initiate in the then current Mystery School at the time, but as far as I can gather from HPB, he was not an initiate in Divine Wisdom. In other words he was not initiated into the great school of the masters.
> > Cass
> >
> > carlosaveline wrote:
> >
> > Cass, Friends,
> >
> > HPB had respect for secret societies and belonged to some of them. Rosicrucians (the true ones) are only an example.
> >
> > She also was most respected by some of them. Received a Masonic Diploma, for instance.
> >
> > Read HPB and you will see what I mean: "Isis", for instance.
> >
> > It is out of respect for secret societies that she fought their false and jesuitical versions.
> >
> > Remember our dialogue on Socrates "not being an initiate"?
> >
> > He was not FORMALY, PHYSICALLY initiate in a secret society, Greek
> > Mysteries. He did not need so.
> >
> > Agreed?
> >
> >
> > Carlos.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > C�pia:
> >
> > Data:Fri, 12 May 2006 18:53:17 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> > Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Cass Knows It All?
> >
> > > Common sense, historical records and HPB.
> > > Cass
> > >
> > > carlosaveline wrote: Cass,
> > >
> > > You say:
> > >
> > > "In all secret societies a facade of humility and truth always covers up the arrogance and dishonesty operating below the surface, how else would they function?"
> > >
> > > I ask:
> > >
> > > Does that mean that you, Cass, modestly claim to know "all" of secret societies, in all times, or "always"?
> > >
> > > Adepthood -- or undue generalization?
> > >
> > > Best regards, Carlos.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > C�pia:
> > >
> > > Data:Thu, 11 May 2006 20:24:04 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > > Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Jesuits All Bad?
> > >
> > > > My thinking is that the ones who hold the power are corrupt, keeping lay jesuits, in the dark about the true operations behind their operations. In all secret societies a facade of humility and truth always covers up the arrogance and dishonesty operating below the surface, how else would they function?
> > > >
> > > > Cass
> > > >
> > > > carlosaveline wrote: Dear Cass,
> > > >
> > > > I do not think that all Catholic priests Jesuits are "evil".
> > > >
> > > > Things are complex. There are more colours than black and white in life, and in the theosophical movement or any human group.
> > > >
> > > > As to the Society of Jesus' role as a kind of "esoteric school" for hatred mystics -- this role may have been taken by "Opus Dei", into a great extent, during 20th century.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks anyway.
> > > >
> > > > Regards, Carlos.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > C�pia:
> > > >
> > > > Data:Wed, 10 May 2006 21:07:27 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Fwd: [Think-Aboutit] Jesuits elect New BlackPope in 2008'-Attention Carlow
> > > >
> > > > > More goss on the Jesuits for you Carlos
> > > > > Cass
> > > > >
> > > > > Jesuits to elect new 'black pope' in 2008
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The superior general of the Jesuits, Dutch Fr Peter-Hans Kolvenbach, has informed members of the Society that he intends to step down in 2008, the year he will turn 80.
> > > > >
> > > > > Catholic News service reports that in a letter sent on Thursday to all members of the Society of Jesus, Fr Kolvenbach said a general congregation to elect his successor and to discuss other important matters would begin on 5 January 2008, in Rome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Each of the 91 Jesuit provinces in the world will hold a provincial congregation by 1 March 1 2007, to prepare for the Rome gathering.
> > > > >
> > > > > While the Jesuit superior general is elected for life, the order's constitutions allow a superior to step down.
> > > > >
> > > > > Catholic News Service in Rome obtained a copy of Fr Kolvenbach's letter in Italian; each Jesuit provincial is charged with ensuring that every member of the Jesuits receive a copy.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fr Kolvenbach, who was elected superior in 1983, told the Jesuits that before making his decision he obtained "the consent of His Holiness Benedict XVI" and had listened to the opinions of his assistants at the Jesuit headquarters and of all the provincials.
> > > > >
> > > > > US Jesuit Fr Frank Case, Rome-based secretary of the Jesuits, told Catholic News Service that Fr Kolvenbach had sought Pope Benedict's opinion and consent in view of his advancing age and the challenges facing the world's almost 21,000 Jesuits.
> > > > >
> > > > > Speaking to the National Catholic Reporter's John L. Allen, Australian Jesuit Fr Dan Madigan said that Kolvenbach "won the confidence of the Jesuits with his intelligence, wisdom and great experience," while at the same time gaining the trust of the Holy See.
> > > > >
> > > > > Allen quoted a story told to him by Madigan, which makes the point. Kolvenbach is never seen without his black cassock, and Madigan said that one Jesuit, skeptical of clerical garb, challenged him, asking, "Why do you dress like that?"
> > > > >
> > > > > Kolvenbach's response, as Madigan tells the story: "I dress like this so you can dress like that."
> > > > >
> > > > > Allen says the anecdote reflects both Kolvenbach's wit, and his sense of his mission - trying to foster the creativity and diversity of the far-flung Jesuit community, while keeping them tethered to the church and its leadership.
> > > > >
> > > > > In his letter, Fr Kolvenbach said he was convoking the general congregation under the conditions foreseen by the Jesuit constitutions to deal with "questions of lasting and serious consequences" for the entire order.
> > > > >
> > > > > He also said the pope and the Jesuits he consulted unanimously approved of his plan to convoke the meeting "to decide on the governance of the society at the highest level."
> > > > >
> > > > > Fr Kolvenbach closed the letter by expressing his hope that preparations for the congregation would be "guided only by the desire to serve Our Lord God" in the hope that he would make use of it.
> > > > >
> > > > > One blogger - Alejandro Bermudez of Catholic Outsider - reports speculation that Kolvenbach's successor will be an Asian, reflecting the shift in demographics during Kolvenbach's term of office which has made India dominant within the Society in terms of numbers.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Furthermore, given the experience with Arrupe's generalate, I would say that the delegati will be looking for someone who knows and is known by Rome, and or who would be a quick study. One of Kolvenbach's greatest achievements as General has been restoring the lines of communication between Borgo Santo Spirito (the General Curia of the Jesuits) and the (Papal) apartment."
> > > > >
> > > > > Pictured: Fr Kolvenbach during a visit to Jesuit Social Services in Melbourne
> > > > >
> > > > > SOURCE
> > > > > Jesuit superior to step down, calls 2008 meeting to elect successor (Catholic News Service 3/2/06)
> > > > > John L. Allen: Jesuits called to elect new superior (National Catholic Reporter 3/2/06)
> > > > > More on the Jesuits: The future could be in South East Asia (Catholic Outsider 5/2/06)
> > > > >
> > > > > LINKS (not necessarily endorsed by Church Resources)
> > > > > Society of Jesus (International)
> > > > > Australian Jesuits
> > > > > Society of Jesus (Wikipedia)
> > > > >
> > > > > ARCHIVE
> > > > > Jesuits and companions begin Jubilee Year with assembly (CathNews 16/12/05)
> > > > >
> > > > > MORE STORIES
> > > > > Jesuits: yes *we will* be electing a new Superior General (Catholic Outsider 4/2/06)
> > > > > Who will be the next Superior General of the Jesuits? (Catholic Outsider 4/2/06)
> > > > > More on the Jesuits: The future could be in South East Asia (Catholic Outsider 5/2/06)
> > > > > Jesuits general meeting on April 22 at the Vatican (Catholic News Agency 3/2/06)
> > > > > Jesuit leader calls general congregation, hints at resignation (Catholic World News 3/2/06)
> > > > > 'Black Pope' to stand down (The Times 4/2/06)
> > > > > Jesuits' Top Superior to Step Down (Zenit 2/2/06)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 6 Feb 2006
> > > > >
> > > > > Note: forwarded message attached.
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