Theos-Talk Archives (May 2006 Message tt00142)

Frank,

Thanks for your commentary. We agree in part. 

Ultimately, Judas, as all traitors  and the facts/tendencies of which Judas  is a  SYMBOL in the metaphoric  narration of the New Testament are, naturally, part of the Cosmos, that is, the Universal Order and Hamony.

No doubt about that.  See from a higher perspective, the recently discoverd "scripture" which describes Judas as innocent is right. 

And realizing this delivers us from hatred. Which is quite good and healthy.

At the same time, HPB wrote to Sinnett: 

"...Turn your back on the  S.P.R. and its rabid idiots." (1)  

Best regards, Carlos.  

oooooooooooooo

NOTE:  (1) "The Letters of H. P. Blavatsky to A. P.  Sinnett", T.U.P., see p. 244.

theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Sat, 6 May 2006 15:16:33 +0200

Assunto:Re: Theos-World "Turn your back..."

> Carlos, but without the SPR no theosophist would 
> have been to defend HPB and the cause.
> 
> For what reason do you think the Masters prevented 
> Hartmann to kick out the Coloumbs from HQ, before 
> the scandal broke out?
> Frank
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "carlosaveline" 
> To: "theos-talk" 
> Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 3:09 PM
> Subject: Theos-World "Turn your back..."
> 
> 
> Dear Friends,
> 
> 
> HPB never invited people to stick to the lies 
> against her, or to help circulate those lies.
> 
> On the other hand, she closed a letter to A.P. 
> Sinnett, from Würzburg, with these words:
> 
> "Watch your impressions and turn your back on the 
> S.P.R. and its rabid idiots." (1)
> 
> A sentence containing another kind commentary on 
> certain people's level of brain activity.
> 
> 
> Best regards, Carlos.
> 
> NOTE:
> 
> (1) "The Letters of H. P. Blavatsky to A. P. 
> Sinnett", T.U.P., see p. 244.
> 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:"theos talk" theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, 
> danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Fri, 5 May 2006 19:33:16 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> Assunto:Theos-World Comparing & Contrasting: 
> Letters of H.P.B. to V.S. Solovyoff
> 
> > Comparing & Contrasting:
> > Letters of H.P.B. to V.S. Solovyoff
> >
> > In the book A MODERN PRIESTESS OF ISIS , the
> > author V.S. Solovyoff gives transcriptions of 
> > many of
> > the letters he said H. P. Blavatsky wrote to 
> > him.
> >
> > Now since Solovyoff turned against H.P.B. and
> > characterized her in this book as a fraud, one 
> > might
> > wonder if he has forged or tampered with any of
> > H.P.B.'s supposed letters.
> >
> > Take for example, the H.P.B. letter dated May 
> > 23, 1885
> > and transcribed on pp. 122-127 in A MODERN 
> > PRIESTESS.
> >
> > Is this letter a complete forgery palmed off as
> > genuine H.P.B. or is it at least a letter that 
> > has
> > been tampered with. And should the historian or 
> > the
> > student of H.P.B.'s life place any stock in the 
> > letter
> > or simply reject the letter as spurious HPB?
> >
> > Some time ago a student of H.P.B. in 
> > correspondence
> > with me said that this letter was obviously 
> > forged
> > since H.P.B. could never have written the words:
> >
> > "[Franz Hartmann]...has turned our devoted 
> > [William
> > Q.] Judge, when [Judge was] despatched [in 1884] 
> > by
> > Olcott from Paris to Adyar, into our enemy." 
> > Quoted
> > from V.S. Solovyoff's A MODERN PRIESTESS OF 
> > ISIS, p.
> > 125.
> >
> > The correspondent spent more than 1 page of text
> > explaining all about Judge and trying to show 
> > that HPB
> > would could never have written those words. And 
> > since
> > those words are obviously a forgery than the 
> > whole
> > letter must be a forgery and therefore rejected. 
> > Such
> > was his reasoning.
> >
> > But is there some way to verify or falsify 
> > whether
> > these disputed words of HPB are her words or 
> > not?
> >
> > According to my correspondent it was obvious 
> > that HPB
> > could never have written what is in this letter,
> > therefore these words are not hers
> >
> > But the fact is that there is at least one 
> > genuine
> > letter of HPB's that, in fact, confirms the 
> > accuracy
> > of what she allegedly said in the letter to 
> > Solovyoff.
> >
> > I have quoted portions of the confirming letter 
> > at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/32954
> >
> > And if you carefully read, study and compare her
> > letter to Judge which is dated May 1, 1885 with 
> > the
> > letter in question, that is, her letter to 
> > Solovyoff
> > dated May 23, 1885, you can see that much of the
> > subject matter in her letter to Solovyff is 
> > confirmed
> > in the letter she had written to Judge himself 
> > only 3
> > weeks before.
> >
> > It is this technique of comparing and 
> > contrasting
> > genuine letters of HPB with the disputed 
> > Solovyoff
> > letters that can lead one to the conclusion that 
> > these
> > letters of HPB to Solovyoff are probably 
> > genuine.
> >
> > In fact, if you take this technique of comparing 
> > what
> > can be learned of this TIME PERIOD thru letters, 
> > diary
> > entries, reminiscences of the time, etc. these
> > supposed HPB letters to Solovyoff seem to 
> > accurately
> > portray either known historical facts and 
> > details or
> > what HPB is known to have written elsewhere.
> >
> > And an observation that should also be made is 
> > that if
> > Solovyoff was actually forging these HPB 
> > letters, why
> > didn't he include something that would be really
> > damaging such as a confession from her that she 
> > had
> > faked the Mahatma letters or the Masters or her
> > psychic phenomena.
> >
> > Now Solovyoff in his narrative does claim that 
> > she
> > VERBALLY told him certain things that would show 
> > her
> > as a fraud but in her letters as transcribed in 
> > MODERN
> > PRIESTESS OF ISIS, such admissions are not 
> > there.
> > (There is one letter of hers to Solovyoff known 
> > as her
> > "Confession" letter which might be construed in 
> > a
> > negative way but as several authors have pointed 
> > out:
> > this negative "interpretation"
> > doesn't hold up on a close reading of the letter 
> > in
> > question.")
> >
> > Solovyoff's book is a valuable historical record 
> > but
> > of course one needs to use some of the material 
> > with
> > caution. Certainly persons interested in the
> > relationship between Solovyoff and Blavatsky 
> > should
> > read other material that helps one to understand
> > these events.
> >
> > Some of the works that should be consulted are:
> >
> > (1)Cranston's HPB biography (the chapter on 
> > Solovyoff)
> > (2)Beatrice Hasting's "Solovyoff's Fraud"
> > (3) K.F. Vania's book on HPB
> > (3)the valuable appendix A in MODERN PRIESTESS 
> > which
> > is a partial translation of HPB's sister Vera's
> > defense pamphlet in answer to Solovyoff's book.
> >
> > And several other books and documents.
> >
> > It should be noted that Boris de Zirkoff, the 
> > compiler
> > of HPB's Collected Writings, even uses material 
> > in
> > Solovyoff's book to document various events in 
> > the
> > "Chronological Survey" of HPB's life
> > for the years 1884, 1885 and 1886.
> >
> > See Vol. VI of HPB's COLLECTED WRITINGS
> >
> > Now on Theos-Talk Carlos Aveline has almost 
> > constantly
> > been reciting the mantra of slanders, lies, 
> > falsehoods
> > about both the Solovyoff and
> > Coulomb books. And certainly one must use these 
> > books
> > with caution especially since both authors 
> > turned
> > against H.P.B.
> >
> > But to throw the baby out with the bathwater, 
> > that is,
> > to completely ignore these books seems equally 
> > foolish
> > since these books do contain valuable historical 
> > data.
> >
> > Again Carlos also wants to characterize anyone 
> > who
> > uses this material as somehow the "enemy" of HPB 
> > and
> > Theosophy. His favorite words apparently are:
> > "slander" and "slanderer."
> >
> > Daniel
> > http://hpb.cc
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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