Theos-Talk Archives (May 2006 Message tt00134)

Solovyoff, Analysis, Crosbie-Tingley, Quote Fetish, Loyalty

Daniel, Frank, Carlos , Bruce - various points below:

SOLOVYOFF -This past January I noticed Slovyoff's 'Modern Priestess of
Isis' on the bookshelf and realizing that I had never read it or even
looked it over opened it.......and quite honestly I could not put it down.
Why ? because it is so incredibly interesting - as a critique of HPB ? No,
because so frequently the experiences that Solovyoff presents overide his
own criticisms , so much so that in many ways not available anywhere else
it actually could be considered a kind of vindication. Certainly it needs
much work and critical analysis AND I would say with that it is a gold
mine. By the time I finished reading it I only wished that Leaf had
translated the whole thing into English. Do you (Daniel)have the Russian
original ? and also what a story of one man's (Solovyoff's)excessive
rationalistic rejection of extraordinary experiences presented to him. And
appendix A, Vera's response is very important historically. Again, Daniel,
is this complete and does anhyone know where Vera's original Russian is?

CRITICAL ANALYSIS - I do believe (Daniel, Carlos, Bruce) that careful and
critical analysis is needed in going over the letters. However, (as Daniel
you know was very fruitful on another general inquiry and topic), a small
group of like minded and motivated students directed and committed to this
as a project for a couple of years could make great progress. The group
must agree on method and goals to produce long lasting quality results that
are useful to both scholars and Theosophical students alike. Algeo's
biggest blunder, in my view, in addition to completely mishandling and
losing John Cooper's scholarship and contribution, was to do it alone and
without the scholarly and Theosophical resources necessary to produce a
quality work.

RE WORLDWATCH - Carlos  - nice to see a shift of subject ... thank you for
this important and useful link.


CROSBIE - TINGLEY HISTORY - Yes, Daniel thank you for posting these
historical documents and Frank for your comments. They are real and true
and should be out in the open. Repressing them is unhealthy. The ULT
'history', even the 'edited' later  'Theosophical Movement 1875-1950' has
much significant inaccurate information. Quite some years ago when I  was
studying all the TS historical info, I read through this book and began to
mark up the chapters relating to Point Loma, Tingley, Crosbie etc. with
corrections.....THERE WERE SO MANY I DIDN'T FINISH ! it was laughable.... I
asked my father what he thought: he smiled and said "well, that's what they
BELIEVE....though it didn't happen that way..." Iverson Harris had earlier
attempted to present some historical facts re Crosbie/Tingley/Point Loma to
ULT but I don't believe he received any answer. I think that in principle
that when organizations are open with their respective historical views and
willing to change and adjust previous errors of fact that intercommunicaton
and open interchange of Theosophy is enhanced. It can only be beneficial
when old control issues and representations are released and positive
energy is then always the result. I am all for anything that goes in this
direction.

QUOTE FETISH - In my experience, when very young and later knowing many
'Point Loma' Theosophists, (literally probably in thousands of
conversations with hundreds of Theosophists)  in discussions of
Theosophical ideas and subjects there has never been any NEED to QUOTE
anyone, to prove something or make it 'right' by noting some passage or
quote ! While the written medium may incline toward quoting, it would
certainly be interesting to have a week or month without any quoting
allowed in the posting to see what would happen. I think of the Yeats
(Jerry for reference ?) anecdote when he was very young and giving his
first public talk on Theosophy, he stood frozen staring at his paper
quietly reading it, HPB nervously tapping her foot until he finished when
she asked him for the paper, tore it up and told him to give the talk again
without reading or notes. Yeats did, his energy rose to the occasion, and
then the audience and HPB found it interesting and engaging.......

JUDGE - OLCOTT  Frank, I do not have a reference regarding the statement I
made about the Judge-Olcott correspondence. I need to reflect back and
remember exactly who mentioned or wrote this etc. I do not have access to
our archival correspondence just yet (packed away still), so it may be a
couple of months before I can check. 

LOYAL/HPB - "....those few Theosophist who have remained loyal......."
....what does 'loyal' mean ? to who? to what? is this internal or exernal
...? or both? and if so HOW so.... that is WHO decides, say if 'I' Ken
Small am 'loyal' to this or that person or idea or principle or what ever ?
who can say "oh, you are not loyal, because you did or didn't....etc." If
loyalty is based on our motivation, it is my understanding that pure
motivation would be the by product of a highly realized or enlightened
condition. H.T. Edge once commented in an article that at this stage of
humanities evolution 'motivation is mixed' -- this being the intrinsic
nature of kama-manas with conscious and uncounscious motivational factors
mixed.... (I could go on but I hope the drift of my view is here --
(Epitome of Theosophy p. 21 may also be useful in practice !)

Ken


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