Theos-Talk Archives (May 2006 Message tt00058)

Carlos,

Just three  points, since I see no good reason to go over all
of your prose.

You write:

=======================================================
Editors are supposed to be responsible for the AUTHENTICITY of what 
they publish. They are fired, and sued, if they publish lies. 
Ask  "The New York Times" about that.
=======================================================

It's interesting that in the scholarly review of my book in
THEOSOPHICAL HISTORY this point was not brought up.

Actually the reviewer thought I should have added more "negative" 
accounts.  I guess you can't please anyone!  shucks :)

You also write:

====================================================
I hope you change your position for the better. It depends on you. 
====================================================

Golly, thanks Carlos you really show concern.  Well, you can always
continue to hope...........

Maybe I will just change my position for the worse just to be 
contrary!  :)  Stop it Chuck!!

You also say:

=============================================================
Paul Johnson, who says  HPB was a fraud, at least does not pretend 
to be a theosophist. 
=============================================================

Does Paul say HPB was a fraud?  

Anyway, are you saying I'm pretending to be a theosophist?

I don't believe I have ever claimed to wear that label.

I think I may have said I was a student of Theosophy and especially 
a student of H.P.B.'s life, work, writings and teachings.

Anyway end of my comments.

Daniel

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Daniel,
> 
> Are you circulating false dollar bills, and "letting people to 
decide for themselves"?  
> 
> And you warn them that the false dollar bills "might  be false", 
but this only at the end of your book, in those notes which  rare 
readers will look for...  
> 
> Do you work in a drugstore, and you put poison in the pills, and 
then you add in very small letters that those pills "may be true, or 
may be false"? 
> 
> Would any serious historian compile "false and true" texts by 
famous authors? 
> 
> Would any museum of Art exhibit  "false and authentic" Rembrandts, 
or Picassos, so that "people can decide for themselves" ?  
> 
> I hope you can see the absolute lack of common sense of 
circulating false dollars, or poison, or false works of art, or 
false texts.  
> 
> Editors are supposed to be responsible for the AUTHENTICITY of 
what they publish. They are fired, and sued, if they publish lies. 
Ask  "The New York Times" about that.  
> 
> If HPB were alive, she would likely try to put you to jail, 
Daniel.   This time no Theosophist would make her keep silent,  
since the reasons to keep her silent in the 19th century (to protect 
Masters names) do not exist any longer.
> 
> You are taking advantage of the fact that HPB is not alive, just 
like Soloviof did. He waited for her death in order to publish his 
own lies... While the Coulombs, well paid by the VATICAN -- 
published their slanders while she was alive. 
> 
> I hope you change your position for the better. It depends on you. 
> 
> Paul Johnson, who says  HPB was a fraud, at least does not pretend 
to be a theosophist. 
> 
> Best  regards,  Carlos. 
> 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Tue, 02 May 2006 20:12:58 -0000
> 
> Assunto:Theos-World Carlos, sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a 
wall
> 
> > Carlos,
> > 
> > I want readers to make up their own minds concerning
> > what the Coulombs/Hodgson say. It looks like both you and I
> > have made up our own minds and it looks like we both agree as
> > to the "truthfulness/falsity" of what the Coulombs say.
> > 
> > And in my book and as I have quoted from it more than
> > once, I warn the reader about the Coulomb material but
> > how can they make up their own minds if they do not read at 
least 
> > some of the material?
> > 
> > Since I quoted in my book defenders and supporters of HPB writing
> > about these Coulomb/Hodgson charges and even making comments
> > about some of the charges, doesn't it make sense to quote at
> > least some of the Coulomb/Hodgson material so the reader can
> > see what some of the charges were, the context, etc.??
> > 
> > You seem so afraid to let readers read for themselves, think
> > for themselves, and come to their own conclusions...
> > 
> > If some of the readers of my book come to the conclusion that
> > what the Coulombs and Hodgson say is true, then so be it.
> > 
> > I certainly would DISagree with them on that point and if they
> > contacted me I would try to show them why that conclusion is 
wrong,
> > at least in my opinion.
> > 
> > But these readers have a right to read the material, think about 
it
> > and come to whatever conclusion they do regardless of what you 
or I 
> > may think about it.
> > 
> > And I know a number of persons who have read the Coulomb book 
and 
> > the Hodgson report in their entirety and believe that Mme. 
Blavatsky 
> > was a fraud. 
> > 
> > I don't agree with their conclusions and I have from time to 
time 
> > tried to discuss with them why I think they are wrong, but these 
> > people are entitled to their own opinions and conclusions 
regardless 
> > of what I may think or what you believe is true.
> > 
> > I see no good in further discussing this particular point with 
you 
> > since you continue to distort what my true position is by saying 
I 
> > circulate slanders and lies.
> > 
> > It is too bad that you seem compelled to see me as the enemy but 
> > that is apparently your perception and you are entitled to it.
> > 
> > But I hope that at least some of the readers on this forum will 
see 
> > through the smoke screen of what your write. If not, too bad 
> > because I cannot do other people's thinking for them. I have 
enough 
> > of a problem trying to do my own thinking!!!
> > 
> > Daniel
> > http://hpb.cc
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > If that is what you call spreading lies and slanders then
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Daniel,
> > > 
> > > What I say about Leadbeater is based in his own writings, 
properly 
> > quoted with references, and in other ADYAR respected sources, 
like 
> > Mary Lutyens; and also on CWL's own confession as to abusing 
> > children, quoted from Josephine Ranson's book of Adyar's 
History. 
> > > 
> > > Please remember CWL was expelled by Olcott from the Adyar TS 
> > because of his "teachings" to young children. No one denies 
that. 
> > Hecame back after Olcott died. 
> > > 
> > > On the other hand, the slanders and lies you have been 
circulating 
> > for years against HPB are "obviously spurious", to quote Radha 
> > Burnier's letter to me. 
> > > Radha does not belong to the ULT. She presides Adyar TS. 
> > > 
> > > No one says the Coulombs were more than criminal blackmailers 
> > looking for money. If you would tell the truth about the 
Coulombs, 
> > you could not circulate their lies against the Masters, or 
against 
> > HPB. 
> > > 
> > > You keep ignoring the oceanic moral, intellectual, ethical and 
> > spiritual difference between CWL and HPB.
> > > 
> > > I invite you to recognize facts. No more than that. 
> > > 
> > > Regards, Carlos. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > Cópia:
> > > 
> > > Data:Mon, 01 May 2006 21:06:46 -0000
> > > 
> > > Assunto:Theos-World Carlos, a question for you
> > > 
> > > > Carlos, you write to me:
> > > > 
> > > > "I invite you to abandon lies, slanders, and any efforts to 
sow
> > > > division, doubts, skepticism and hatred among theosophists 
and
> > > > theosophical groups."
> > > > 
> > > > So when you have written all that you have about Leadbeater, 
his
> > > > activities and teachings and when you have written about 
what 
> > you 
> > > > think Besant and Olcott did to Judge, are you telling us 
that 
> > you 
> > > > don't consider any of that as an effort on your part "to sow 
> > division, 
> > > > doubts, skepticism and hatred among theosophists and 
> > theosophical 
> > > > groups"? 
> > > > 
> > > > Just trying to clarify your thinking as given in what you 
wrote.
> > > > 
> > > > Daniel
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente 
Terra.
> > > > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
> > > > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?
> > 
+_u=carlosaveline&_l=1,1146517677.622339.7694.alcuta.terra.com.br,351
> > 2,Des15,Des15
> > > > 
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> > > 
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> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra.
> > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
> > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?
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