Theos-Talk Archives (May 2006 Message tt00032)

Dear Friends,

I posted this message about twenty days ago and, for some reason, it 
failed to go to distribution.  So, for Cass (you asked in the first 
place) and others who might be interested in the subject, I am 
re-writing and reposting it as a new discussion string. 

Dear Cass, Friends,

Cass, I'm not sure that visions for their own sake are all that 
interesting for a third party who does not actually experience them. In 
my case, I don't see beings on Mars or talk to ascended Masters.  I do 
think that people experience a variety of different kinds of visual and 
mental phenomena that originate from a variety of states of 
consciousness that all people can potentially achieve.  What the people 
actually relate in their experiences has, I think, more to do with the 
"reality" they attribute to it.  For instance, I recently had 
entertained a visitor who trained for many years with a Brazilian 
spiritist from the Kardec school.  For a couple of hours she related to 
me various visions she had.  She told me in total seriousness of her 
meetings and conversations with the Archangel Michael and other such 
celestial celebrities.  While she was telling me these things, I thought 
to myself: "now if she were from India and had the same experiences, she 
would probably be telling me of her meetings with Krishna etc. 
So, I think the visions themselves are less important than the insights 
they point to for the person who has the experience.  That is because 
the insights seem always to be around some personal context. That is, we 
experience certain things precisely because of there meaning to us, or 
because of our need to see them.   For instance, I have had several 
people tell me of a time when they were in deep despair and a "Master" 
appeared in their room.  Was the appearance physical; an astral 
projection; a waking dream?  That would be hard to determine.  Perhaps 
the importance of the vision is the meaning it conveys, or the 
reassurance it gives to the person at the time. 
Another kind of vision is what I would call a waking lucent dream.  That 
is, the person is completely awake and aware of the actual surroundings, 
yet is experiencing a vision of a place somewhere else with all of the 
sounds, smells, sensations etc. associated with it. These kinds of 
experiences sometimes occur in meditation.

Others fall into the clairvoyance category.  There is a story that 
Swedenborg, while visiting in a distant town, clairvoyantly saw his own 
town on fire.  He described to the other guests the progress of the fire 
and which buildings burned.  The accuracy of his vision was confirmed in 
a newspaper story that appeared a couple of days later. 
Other phenomena I have seen includes telepathy.  About 35 years ago I 
used to  work in an open setting Community Mental Health Center in Los 
Angeles.  There, I ran into several patients who were remarkable 
telepaths, and would give voice to things that I was thinking.  There 
were others who heard voices.  They believed that God, or angels, or 
departed spirits were speaking to them. 
Another phenomena I have witnessed is the presence of entities of some 
kind amidst extremely pathological situations.  Some people seem to be 
particularly good a drawing such entities and are surrounded by them 
most all of the time. 
There are other things too, but this might be enough to start off a 
discussion. What other kinds of phenomena have you witnessed? In these 
phenomena, what might be the difference between spiritual and psychic 
visions, hallucinations and imagination.  How are these elements 
different, and how do they interact? 
I hope this helps.
Best
Jerry