Theos-Talk Archives (April 2006 Message tt00734)

Friends, 

I guess both Chuck, Bruce and Sufilight are right from the  viewpoint of a broader perspective.

Chuck says personalities/individdualities are important. Note that even today attacks on the movement depend on attacking HPB and WQJ as persons.  

Bruce says the philosophy of Theosophy is of paramount importance.

Sufilight understands that we must look at the world today with a creative, open, active mind.   I would add that serving humanity today is probably the best way to deserve, and to receive,  REAL INSPIRATION. 

The creative challenge is to recognize unity in diversity of viewpoints. 

Regards,  Carlos. 

De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:13:15 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Re: Individuals and the Movement

> Carlos points to a significant point. The SD was to have a Volume III
> on the lives of Adepts. Such a volume would have been very instructive
> as to what kinds of details HPB and the Masters felt were appropriate
> when dealing with the lives of these great Spirits. Why was that volume
> pulled? By all accounts it was ready for printing at the same time as
> Vols I & II. Is it because it was necessary that we learn for ourselves
> how to treat not only the lives of Adepts, but how to respectfully treat
> the lives of all people?
> 
> Again, I don't deny there is value in understanding the life of HPB, but
> again there is no version of that life that can ever become a creed for
> theosophists. We are obligated to treat her life with respect and to
> avoid demonstrating ingratitude towards her. Claims that she would be
> okay with us repeating the slanders of the past are silly. During her
> life this was not okay, the same principle that made it not okay then
> makes it not okay now. Cranston's biography expressed both respect and
> gratitude. However, other than this idealized life that Cranston
> presents, HPB's life is not really up for debate by theosophists. That
> is not to say that the idealized version is not pretty accurate, just
> that barring further facts there is little more to be said. Cranston
> does put forward arguments that can openly be debated, but the general
> facts concerning HPB's life are what they are.
> 
> Morten has been trying to tie in the Jesuits to this debate and I think
> he has a point. There is an article going around the internet
> concerning the Jesuits:
> 
> http://www.arcticbeacon.com/26-Apr-2006.html
> 
> The article describes the oath taken by certain inner members of the
> order. This dovetails pretty closely with what HPB had to say about
> this order. It also gives a pretty big clue as to how the jesuitical
> mindset goes about sowing the seeds of dissension causing division among
> groups and nations. Do people really believe that there is not a group
> or groups alive today using this understanding for their own selfish
> gains? It is understanding this mindset and how it goes about keeping
> us apart that is the key to overcoming its power.
> 
> I am happy to debate the followers of Leadbeater and Besant on the
> philosophies espoused by these thinkers as long as part of their
> argument is not that they were Chelas. The philosophy put forward by
> HPB does not hinge on whether she was a Chela or not. As long as we put
> too much importance on the personal lives of these people, there will be
> those using this to divide and weaken the influence of theosophy.
> 
> Bruce
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> wrote:
> >
> > Chuck, Friends,
> >
> > No doubt, Sylvia Cranston's book on HPB, which is a long biography,
> has a great value, just as Ernest Pelletier's book on William Judge
> (1,000 pp.) also has.
> >
> > And Tillett's book on Leadbeater, and Olcott's "Old Diary Leaves",
> etc.
> >
> > I guess Bruce's point is that we should also be able to discuss the
> philosophical aspects of the movement; its teaching, its message, its
> wisdom, its future.
> >
> > Bruce is right in the sense that we have been discussing too much of
> personalities and too litlle of contents.
> >
> > You are rightin the sense that understanding personality is an
> important part of the business.
> >
> > By the way, HPB's intended third volume of the "Secret Doctrine" was
> to pay a lot of attention to Lives of Adepts -- individual lives,
> therefore. There is something of that material in the "Collected
> Writings", volume XIV. But she estudies lives of people with a
> philosophical approach. Keeping to gossips and personality clashes is
> different.
> >
> > Yet even worse than keeping stuck to gossips about theosophical
> leaders, is to circulate wild and proved slanders about them, under the
> pretext of "letting people to decide for themselves".
> >
> > Now, studying their lives and learning from their experiences is
> really important.
> >
> > Regards, Carlos.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Cópia:
> >
> > Data:Tue, 25 Apr 2006 22:57:43 EDT
> >
> > Assunto:Re: Theos-World MKR, Bruce, Chuck and the Movement
> >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 4/25/2006 7:50:10 PM Central Standard Time,
> > > carlosaveline@... writes:
> > >
> > > Some discussion is inevitable and even healthy, as Chuck says.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It is more than that, it is necessary. Theosophy did not spring from
> the
> > > void, nor did the Angel Gabriel look down on HPB and say, "Get to
> work!"
> > > Theosophy is not something set in stone, depending upon some holy
> writ that is
> > > unchanging and infallible. It is a process, a continuous
> development. And it
> > > is not a movement. The only movement we find in Theosophy usually
> comes not
> > > from the head or the heart but from another part of the anatomy.
> > >
> > > Ideas have their roots in the experience of those who expound them.
> Be it
> > > the interminable wordiness of HPB, the wackiness of CWL, the
> sentimental
> > > lunacy of Annie Besant, the bizarre imaginings of Katherine Tingley
> etc. All have
> > > contributed and all have their weaknesses as well as strengths,
> foolishness
> > > as well as wisdom. But it is only studying the people behind the
> ideas that
> > > we can judge and understand the ideas.
> > >
> > > To ignore the personalities of Theosophy would reduce us to
> despicable
> > > bibliolators, worshipping the words with no understanding of what
> produced them.
> > >
> > > Chuck the Heretic
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
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> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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