Theos-Talk Archives (April 2006 Message tt00318)

Dear Friends,

As long as I know, pamphlets published by the ETS are made with a very small number of copies and circulate among experienced students. 

I did not see this particular pamphlet yet, but I would like to see it.  

I have no problem in admitting mistakes of mine or of my friends. Diversity is a healthy thing. 

I do not think Daniel Caldwell has an absolute monopoly of mistakes. Yet it is certain that such a pamphlet as published by the ETS --  with or without proper identification about the fact that the Coulombs' slanders are but slanderers --  never circulated beyond  small numbers of more or less experienced students of Theosophy.    

The tragic thing about Daniel's book is that is goes to the wider public.

If the ETS published the Coulombs' pamphlet without due identification of it as a collection of falsehoods, well --  one mistake cannot justify the other.
And -- besides  criticizing the  ETS for that mistake (if it did happen), Daniel should admit his own mistake -- and correct it in an public ERRATA.  That would be OK.  Honest editors make mistakes -- and admit them in a public way.  

On the other hand, I also do not think that the policy of publishing false documents was entirely created by Daniel.  

I wil try to bring more data about this tomorrow. Such data can help  clarify my views in a broader way. 


Best regards,   Carlos Cardoso Aveline 

 

 



De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:33:34 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Re: Daniel Circulating Slanders: "...what is sauce for the goose is sauce...."

> Notice that in what Carlos writes below
> he does NOT address the issue concerning
> the reprint of the entire Coulomb pamphlet
> by the Edmonton Theosophical Society.
> 
> An inquiring mind might also ask:
> 
> IF....IF Daniel is circulating "slanders," IS the 
> ETS ALSO guilty of ciculating
> "slanders" by publishing the ENTIRE Coulomb pamphlet
> and with NO WORD (not even in the FINAL pages) warning the modern 
> reader about the content of this "disgusting" pamphlet???
> 
> These are the kinds of questions one should be asking as
> one tries to understand Carlos' reasoning in this matter
> and the validity of his contentions concerning this subject.
> 
> I hope Carlos does NOT have a double standard in assessing and 
> judging such matters.
> 
> Remember:
> 
> "...what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander."
> 
> Personally I do NOT believe I was ciculating "slanders" and I do
> not believe that ETS was circulating "slanders". Both TPH by 
> publishing my book and the ETS by reprinting the Coulomb pamphlet 
> were both performing a needed service of providing interested 
> individuals with relevant historical documents. It is for each 
> individual reading these two books to determine for themselves the 
> truthfulness or falsity of the statements made.
> 
> And of course, it IS Emma Coulomb's TESTIMONY even though Carlos 
> apparently wants to play a word game here.
> 
> I close this posting with a quote about the Coulomb pamphlet from my 
> late friend Walter A. Carrithers, Jr. (who wrote under the assumed 
> name of Adlai E. Waterman):
> 
> ==================================================
> It is safe to calculate that for every ten thousand persons who have 
> heard and believe that Richard Hodgson "exposed" H.P. Blavatsky as a 
> fraud and imposter, not more than one has read his "expose;" and, 
> that for every thousand of his readers, hardly one has ever seen 
> Emma Coulomb's pamphlet. 
> 
> And yet, by logic and every rule of common sense, the latter 
> document takes precedence over all others in standing at the very 
> heart of the controversy raised by the Coulombs, comprising as it 
> does the firsthand unadulterated TESTIMONY of the chief accusers, 
> together with documentary "proofs" adduced for their claims. 
> 
> Yet, strange to say, practically no attention was paid to this 
> PRICELESS PAMPHLET - least of all by indignant Theosophists [like 
> Carlos?????] who put no stock in what Mme. Coulomb might have to 
> say! -, not until, that is, the appearance in 1937 of Mrs. Hastings' 
> booklet, Defence of Madame Blavatsky (Volume II) The "Coulomb 
> Pamphlet". Unfortunately, Mrs. Hastings did not live to complete 
> her promising study of the case. 
> =====================================================
> 
> I have added caps to Walter's own words in describing the Coulomb 
> pamphlet:
> 
> TESTIMONY and PRICELESS PAMPHLET !!!!
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Friends,
> > 
> > 
> > I don't see contradiction in my two paragraphs quoted by Daniel. 
> > 
> > Indeed, in his disgusting and sad book, there is "no word from 
> the 'editor' Daniel Cadlwell admitting he is publishing documents 
> which have no trace of truth in them whatsoever".
> > 
> > He only says that those texts are not likely to be true, or 
> something similar, and thus he follows the well-known "maybe 
> policy". 
> > 
> > And even this he writes in a way which the average reader will 
> most likely NOT SEE. 
> > 
> > John Algeo did the same thing with the HPB Letters. Some 20 per 
> cent of the texts published by Algeo in his "HPB Letters" volume I --
> - are fake. 
> > 
> > Caldwell was more modest -- but then, he was the pioneer in 
> publishing semi-unidentified lies and libels as if they were part 
> of the theosophical literature. 
> > 
> > In the introduction of his unfortunate boook, Caldwell 
> calls "testimonies" those open and shameful lies.
> > 
> > No honest editor or Historian can do such a thing. I still hope 
> in the future Caldwell will realize that this is not the proper 
> thing to do. 
> > 
> > Best regards, Carlos Cardoso Aveline 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Cópia:
> > 
> > Data:Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:33:45 -0000
> > 
> > Assunto:Theos-World "No proper identification": Do we have a good 
> example with the ETS reprint???
> > 
> > > Readers,
> > > 
> > > Please notice the progression here:
> > > 
> > > Originally Carlos wrote:
> > > 
> > > "In the disgusting volume The Esoteric World of Madame 
> Blavatsky —
> > > while believing the editor has selected truthful documents — the
> > > reader will bump into many of the lies written against HPB. 
> There he
> > > will see two texts by Emma Coulomb (pp. 35-36 and pp. 210-215) 
> with
> > > no word from the 'editor' Daniel Cadlwell admitting he is 
> publishing
> > > documents which have no trace of truth in them whatsoever."
> > > 
> > > Notice Carlos' words:
> > > 
> > > "....no word from the 'editor' Daniel Cadlwell admitting ...."
> > > 
> > > Now after I have pointed out repeatedly that this is simply not 
> true 
> > > by quoting directly from my book several statements showing that 
> > > what Carlos wrote is not accurate, Carlos apparently backs off 
> from 
> > > his "NO WORD" stance and writes instead:
> > > 
> > > "Only in the final pages of his sad book he made commentaries 
> > > admitting those 'texts' were likely not authentic."
> > > 
> > > Well I guess we should be happy with his apparent concession and 
> > > retraction of his original statement!!!
> > > 
> > > But now we must puzzle over his definition of FINAL in the 
> > > phrase "the FINAL pages"....
> > > 
> > > because more than 100 pages BEFORE the final pages of the book I 
> > > wrote at the appropriate place about the Coulomb attack having 
> no 
> > > solid foundation....
> > > 
> > > Anyway moving on....
> > > 
> > > If Carlos is really "upset" because I gave "no proper 
> > > identification" about the Coulomb testimony, then is the 
> following 
> > > example another example of what Carlos would consider "no proper 
> > > identification."
> > > 
> > > In 1995, the Edmonton Theosophical Society (who is also the 
> > > publisher of Fohat where Carlos originally wrote his above 
> quoted 
> > > words about my book) REPRINTED the ENTIRE 112 pages of Madame 
> > > Coulomb's "disgusting" (to use Aveline's description) pamphlet. 
> > > 
> > > They published the ENTIRE pamphlet and sold it. A correspondent 
> of 
> > > mine originally wrote me informing me that he had bought this 
> > > reprint and I in turn bought copies although I had a copy of the 
> > > original. 
> > > 
> > > Nowhere in the reprint by ETS is there ONE WORD warning today's 
> > > readers about the contents of this volume....not even in the 
> FINAL 
> > > pages of this reprint!!
> > > 
> > > Maybe Carlos should dash off a letter to FOHAT and ETS telling 
> them 
> > > that they should have done differently....that they should not 
> have 
> > > reprinted this DISGUSTING volume...and with "no proper 
> > > identification." !!!
> > > 
> > > Daniel
> > > http://hpb.cc
> > > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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