Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt01591)

Cass

carlosaveline cardoso aveline <carlosaveline@hotmail.com> wrote:=20
Dear Sufilight, Dear Cass,


I agree with Sufilight.
I prefer talking about the failures of Democracy in the country where I liv=
e=20
-- Brazil -- but I can tell you I  do NOT  idealize the USA democracy as it=
=20
is working rigth now, and I hope it improves soon.
( Now, saying it is the same as Hitler's Germany will not help -- at all.)

In any democracy there are lots of non-democratic issues. The difference is=
=20
that in a democracy you can talk about them.  In this we find the sacred=20
value of a democracy,  with all of  its failures: that it gives you some=20
liberty of thought, even if in limited ways.

As to your "tough time here in Denmark these days" -- can you explain more=
=20
about that? I may have missed something.


Regards,  Carlos.







>From: Cass Silva=20
>Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Theos-World The Relevancy of USA's Democracy
>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:43:32 -0800 (PST)
>
>Know that it is a natural cause of events and that it will pass.
>
>Cass
>
>"M. Sufilight"  wrote: Yeah...
>Allright.
>
>My views are:
>
>I do agree a whole lot with you Carlos.
>One thing though.
>You wrote:
>"So the USA and its democracy has more in it than meets the eye."
>
>Perhaps. But, there are also a lot of non-democratic issues, which
>actually not meets the eyes officially.
>Corruption and bribery mention a few. Just look at how many members of the
>Congress,
>who has steeped down in the latest years. You could try to compare that to
>most of the EU countries, and I think you will understand my view. This is
>what is officially known. Then we have the un-official part to consider. -
>It also seems, that The US Congress are being lobbied as no other parlimen=
t
>on the globe.
>
>---
>Just to mention it:
>I am really going through a tough time here in Denmark these days.
>So any help would be appreciated. I guess only those with real knowledge=20
>and
>wisdom
>will be able to help me from the distance.
>
>
>
>from
>M. Sufilight with peace and love...
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
>To:
>Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 3:27 PM
>Subject: Theos-World The Relevancy of USA's Democracy
>
>
> >
> >
> > Dear Sufilight,
> >
> > Thanks a lot.
> >
> > There would be much to say.
> >
> > I agree with HPB's vision on Jesuitism. ( I do not see the relationship
> > between Jesuitism and the other issues discussed. )
> >
> > On democracies:
> >
> > Ocultism teaches that the shell of a man is illusion and made of
> > ignorance,
> > yet in some occasions his essence, his higher soul, will appear in a
> > stronger way. There is "antahkarana", the bridge.  A man's life should
> > never
> >  be despised just because his outer shell is largely  made of ignorance=
.
> > He has the seed of wisdom inside.
> >
> > So with a country, or a people, or a nation.
> >
> > HPB wrote that the USA was the model for the creation of the=20
>theosophical
> > movement. The movement  is the seed, or seedling, for future
> > civilizations.
> > Inspired in the USA, HPB calls the theosophical movement "a republic [i=
.
> > ed.
> > a democracy] of conscience".
> >
> > So the USA and its democracy has more in it than meets the eye.
> >
> > The outer shell of democracy is as rotten as you say or more. We agree=
=20
>on
> > that. At the same time it should not be despised and it cannot be seen=
=20
>as
> > the same as Hitler's Germany.
> >
> > If you knew what were the military dictatorships in Brazil, Chile  and
> > Argentina,  or if you have lived personally as a Jew or as a Theosophis=
t
> > in
> > Hitler's Germany, you would see and feel  in your "blood", so to say,=20
>the
> > oceanic difference between a country where you can say what you want=20
>about
> > the president, or a country where you will die if you say what you=20
>think.
> >
> > USA, Canada and Europe natives often can't see the positive sides of=20
>their
> > democracies, especially as seeds for the future.
> >
> > Countries and democracies are not "entirely bad" or "entirely good".
> >
> > As Adyar is not entirely bad, and Pasadena or the ULT are not entirely
> > good
> > -- and the other way around, too.
> >
> > Each of them, as each country, as each person,  can be stimulated to
> > discover its/his/her  higher purpose and potentialities.
> >
> > It is OK to be a stern, radical critic. HPB and the Masters were.  Yet=
=20
>the
> > aim of criticizing is but to destroy the ignorance and to stimulate the
> > inner awakening of life and consciousness in the person, country,
> > national,
> > group, "republic".
> >
> > It would be too easy for us  to say that "Adyar TS is not authentic --=
=20
>the
> > hell with it" . "It is irrelevant".
> >
> > Or to say: "USA's democracy is not authentic -- the hell with it".
> >
> > To think, to discern, gives much more trouble than that.
> >
> > Yet this is our common task: to discern and to inspire the awakening of
> > authenticity in that which appears not to be authentic; and to show the
> > mechanisms of collective illusion so that people, nations and=20
>theosophical
> > groups get less and less deluded.
> >
> > I hope this clarifies my views.
> >
> >
> > Carlos.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "M. Sufilight"
> >>Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >>To:
> >>Subject: Re: Theos-World Long Life to Sufis and Jews!
> >>Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:49:05 +0200
> >>
> >>Hallo all,
> >>
> >>My views are:
> >>
> >>1) Ok. We agree. I think you misunderstood my words.
> >>
> >>2)
> >>Yes.
> >>Here we have Blavatsky's article THEOSOPHY OR JESUITISM?, written june
> >>1888.
> >>
> >>"Therefore, the present opportunity is taken to state, once for all, th=
e
> >>views which Theosophists and Occultists entertain with regard to the
> >>Society
> >>of Jesus. At the same time, all those who are pursuing in life's great
> >>wilderness of vain evanescent pleasures and empty conventionalities an
> >>ideal
> >>worth living for, are offered the choice between the two now once more
> >>rising powers--the Alpha and the Omega at the two opposite ends of the
> >>realm
> >>of giddy, idle existence--THEOSOPHY and JESUITISM.
> >>For, in the field of religious and intellectual pursuits, these two are
> >>the
> >>only luminaries--a good and an evil star, truly--glimmering once more=20
>from
> >>behind the mists of the Past, and ascending on the horizon of mental
> >>activities. They are the only two powers capable in the present day of
> >>extricating one thirsty for intellectual life from the clammy slush of=
=20
>the
> >>stagnant pool known as Modern Society, so crystallized in its cant, so
> >>dreary and monotonous in its squirrel-like motion around the wheel of
> >>fashion. Theosophy and Jesuitism are the two opposite poles, one far
> >>above,
> >>the other far below even that stagnant marsh. Both offer power--one to=
=20
>the
> >>spiritual, the other to the psychic and intellectual Ego in man. The
> >>former
> >>is "the wisdom that is from above . . . pure, peaceable, gentle . . .=20
>full
> >>of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy,"=20
>while
> >>the latter is "the wisdom that descendeth not from above, but is=20
>earthly,
> >>sensual, DEVILISH."3 One is the power of Light, the other that of
> >>Darkness.
> >>. . ."
> >>
> >>
> >>This is true also today. There is a difference though. From the The
> >>Society
> >>of Jesus has been created groups with other names than their own, so th=
e
> >>more easily can hide their activities to anyone thye want to hide them
> >>from. - I know the late Pope Paul John II threw a few good words. But,=
=20
>now
> >>his very near friend from the "Inquisition" is ruling as a Pope.
> >>It seems quite obvious, that the "Jesuits" have branches outside the
> >>Catholic groups, and that they are heavily involved with politics and
> >>militant activity, even if they say differently.
> >>(The word "Jesuit" is also defined as "devious" or "devious religious
> >>Christisn" and perhaps even an occult Christian one. Some of the Jesuit=
s
> >>has
> >>been dabbling with the occult, we all know that today, because some of
> >>their
> >>scriptures are today officially available.)
> >>
> >>Did this help?
> >>
> >>
> >>3) Democracy you say...aehmmm...
> >>Well, what kind of democracy?
> >>Some democracies are not really democracies as far as I know.
> >>Take for instance the USA. It is a - media and propaganda democracy -
> >>involving heavily emotional personalisations of politicians. Money rule=
s
> >>such a kind of democracy. It is not a healthy democracy as far as I am
> >>concerned. Buthan is for instance doing much better.
> >>They run politics just like a commercial - using lies. If they get=20
>caught
> >>they won't admit it - or answer to justice. The "jesuits" are very
> >>powerful
> >>in this country today. And they have some very cunning laywers - I tell
> >>you.
> >>And they swear with the Bible a whole lot.
> >>
> >>I would rather say, that one aught to divide countries into two kinds.
> >>One kind is the materialistic kind. The other is ther spiritual kind.
> >>The materialistic country are not on the path of wisdom towards=20
>liberation
> >>or pure Atma-Vidya.
> >>The spiritual country are. India is one such country. USA is not. Wisdo=
m
> >>is
> >>not promoted by the leaders in USA.
> >>This, I think is a more important difference.
> >>But to run a country as a democracy is often a better system to choose.=
=20
>I
> >>think we can agree upon that.
> >>
> >>
> >>- - -
> >>To help the readers:
> >>Not all groups calling themselves sufis are compassionate. But, Carlos
> >>obviously talk about the compassionate kind.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>from
> >>M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
> >>To:
> >>Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:48 PM
> >>Subject: Theos-World Long Life to Sufis and Jews!
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Sufilight,
> >> >
> >> > 1) I haven't said that Gas Chamber's lessons to humanity are  more,=
=20
>or
> >> > less,
> >> >  important.
> >> > I mentioned that the time of gas chambers has hopefully gone, and no=
w
> >>our
> >> > challenges include Peace in Palestine/Israel (and in other places as
> >> > well).
> >> >
> >> > 2) I just couldn't see what is your point with regard to the Jesuits=
.
> >>Can
> >> > you explain?
> >> >
> >> > 3) I am  for democracy, for non-violent action, and have no=20
>admiration
> >> > whatsoever for Nazis, neo-Nazis  or for Suicide-killers.
> >> >
> >> > I admire Sufi teachings and Jewish mystics alike.
> >> >
> >> > Best regards,  Carlos.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>From: "M. Sufilight"
> >> >>Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >> >>To:
> >> >>Subject: Re: Theos-World Ecology of Mind
> >> >>Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:41:47 +0200
> >> >>
> >> >>Yeah...Interesting.
> >> >>
> >> >>My views are:
> >> >>
> >> >>Carlos, Are you also saying that the "jesuits" are involved in this=
=20
>on
> >> >>a
> >> >>political level and other levels
> >> >>in society?
> >> >>
> >> >>Try for instance this one or Blavatsky's definition(s):
> >> >>
> >> >>Controversies
> >> >>The Jesuits have frequently been described by Catholic and Protestan=
t
> >> >>enemies as engaged in various conspiracies. They have also been=20
>accused
> >>of
> >> >>using casuistry to obtain justifications for the unjustifiable. In
> >>several
> >> >>languages, "Jesuit" or "Jesuitical" therefore acquired a secondary
> >>meaning
> >> >>of "devious."
> >> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit
> >> >>
> >> >>- - - - - - -
> >> >>As for "gaschambers". Is it really that important?
> >> >>  It was the Nazi's who started the whole bloddy war with their idea=
=20
>of
> >> >>"Lebensraum" anyway.
> >> >>They did not succeed in burning down Freud's and Jung's teachings. I
> >>will
> >> >>call that a victory.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>from
> >> >>M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>----- Original Message -----
> >> >>From: "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
> >> >>To:
> >> >>Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:07 PM
> >> >>Subject: Theos-World Ecology of Mind
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> >> >> >
> >> >> > PRESERVING THE ECOLOGY OF MIND
> >> >> >
> >> >> > oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Dear Friends,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "World  Goodwill Newsletter" (1)  discusses  the problem of
> >> >>"information
> >> >> > overload" in our minds - due to the amound of information now
> >>arriving
> >> >>to
> >> >> > us
> >> >> > through TV, print, internet, mobile phones, etc.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The Newsletter says it  is not easy to "keep one's head above thi=
s
> >> >> > tidal
> >> >> > wave". And it quotes the group 'Adbusters':
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Our minds have become a virtual dumping ground of pollutants  -
> >> >> > manipulative ads, distorted news, untold violence (...)  and ther=
e
> >> >> > is
> >>a
> >> >> > need
> >> >> > to reclaim our mental environment."
> >> >> >
> >> >> > More:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Add to this picture even subtler channels of information=20
>reception,
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > nascent telepathic sensitivities that mean you may unwittingly=20
>pick
> >>up
> >> >>on
> >> >> > patterns of emotion and thought from those around  you."
> >> >> >
> >> >> > True, this mass of information will be processed during sleep. Bu=
t
> >> >> > there
> >> >> > are
> >> >> > those who don't sleep enough, or can't sleep well.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Important thoughts, indeed.  Yet I would question the idea that w=
e
> >>are
> >> >> > exposed to too much information.
> >> >> > In fact, what surrounds us is mostly pseudo-information, and
> >>sometimes
> >> >> > dis-information.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Perhaps we cannot call "information" all those mental noises that
> >> >> > surround
> >> >> > us.  Any clear view of  things will establish that "information"=
=20
>is
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > bit
> >> >> > of knowledge which helps you to take better decisions in life and=
=20
>to
> >> >> > achieve
> >> >> > your goals.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Even as we talk about Theosophy, the exercise of attention and
> >> >>discernment
> >> >> > should tell us whether the thoughts arriving to us -  or  the
> >>thoughts
> >> >> > formulated by us -  actually serve the purposes of expanding our
> >> >> > consciousness, facing significant facts, preserving the=20
>foundations
> >>of
> >> >>our
> >> >> > inner peace, establishing sane mutual help relationships with=20
>people
> >>--
> >> >>or
> >> >> > produce more noice than meaning.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > In order to be able to understand  information and dis-informatio=
n
> >> >> > processes, it is important to recognize and accept the=20
>significance
> >>of
> >> >> > silence.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Mental silence shows us the meaning of life without the need of
> >>words.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It helps us see both the facts and the illusion in what we read o=
r
> >> >> > hear,
> >> >> > but
> >> >> > also in what we ourselves  say or think.  Because sometimes
> >>unconscious
> >> >> > mental games can be played at us by some  instintive layers of ou=
r
> >>own
> >> >> > mind.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Paying  attention to the mental tides is a form of self-knowledge=
.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > As we gradually get rid of waves of illusion, we get to be able t=
o
> >> >> > learn
> >> >> > more and better about esoteric philosophy or Theosophy.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Such a learning liberates us -- but it needs inner peace and a
> >> >> > degree
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > mental silence. It needs a healthy ecology of mind.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That's why the practice of mental silence, MOUNA, is taught in
> >>eastern
> >> >> > philosophies.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Best regards,   Carlos.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > NOTE:
> >> >> > (1) Number 01, 2006. Website: www.worldgoodwill.org.  World=20
>Goodwill
> >>is
> >> >> > inspired  by Alice Bailey's philosophy and gives a positive
> >> >> > contribution
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > human process now.  It cooperates with the United Nations system,
> >> >>strongly
> >> >> > stimulating universal brotherhood.    The Newsletter is edited by
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > Lucis
> >> >> > Trust, New York.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> >> > Liga=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BDes gratuitas de PC-para-PC para qualquer lu=
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> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
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