Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt01380)

The "Master Jesus" was one of a parade of Masters who CWL claimed to be 
among his associates: Master Jesus, Master Jupiter, Master Mars, Master 
Rakoczy etc..  They are all well represented in CWL's writings and the 
ES material of the time.  Many of them later appeared in Alice Bailey's 
writings and some in the Ballard's I am Writings.  CWL taught that Jesus 
lived in 100 BC.  Besant believed it and also promoted the idea.  So did 
G.R.S. Mead, who, for a while, also believed in CWL's clairvoyance. To 
his later embarrassment, Mead even wrote a book on the subject. 
As for saner speculations as to the possible identities of a prototype 
for the Biblical Jesus, the Essene teacher of Righteousness (who is 
never named) has been suggested.  Apollonius of Tyana, as you mentioned 
in a previous post.  One of my favorite suggestions is Rabbi named Jesus 
ben Hananya, who live around the same time.  One of his sayings, quoted 
in the Talmud, is similar to Jesus' saying in the Gospel of Mark about 
salt losing its taste.   It is a very odd saying.  The other  thing that 
intrigues me is the literal meaning of that Rabbi's name: "Jesus, son of 
the most merciful God."

Best
Jerry






Cass Silva wrote:

> Jerry,
> One last niggling doubt.  Who then is the Master Jesus?
> Cass
>
> Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@charter.net> wrote: Dear Cass,
>
> You asked me to address your question.  I will, but I have to take the 
> long way around.  So please be patient.  In the end, I think you will 
> see why I answered in this way:
>
> The problem lies in our lack of understanding of late classical Greek 
> literature.   The Greeks had no problem distinguishing between 
> Herodotus' histories and Homer's Odyssey.  The former was an account of 
> what Herodotus saw and accounts of wars he recorded. The latter is a 
> hero's journey of a man who becomes a god.  To put it another way, 
> Aristotle, in his "Poetics" distinguished between "logos" and "mythos."  
> Logos represents the bare information, while the mythos gives it 
> meaning.  Where is the truth that has real meaning?  It is in the 
> mythos.  So, even though the Odyssey is a fictional work, it represents 
> deeper truths.  For the ancient Greeks, spiritual truth was transmitted 
> by Bards through the telling of sacred stories--what we today call 
> myths.  Today, our Christian culture has taught us to regard myths as 
> lies, as false stories.  For the Greeks, they once represented exactly 
> the opposite. 
> So the logos of the Jesus story might be: A man was born.  He became a 
> Rabbi.  He died.
>
> The mythos goes like this: There was a man, the only begotten son of 
> god, born of a virgin, and descended from the house of David.  He 
> ministered and healed people for a year and was crucified on a cross so 
> that all who believes in him will be saved. 
> All of those mythic elements had deep meaning to the Greeks:
>
> Son of god, as was Heracles and Asclepius.
> Born of a virgin: As were all of god's heroes.
> Descended from the House of David:  A reference to Judaism, so that he 
> can have hereditary claim to kingship (Messiah).
> Ministered and healed: Because heroes are wise or healers or both.  The 
> great god or god-men healers of the time included Asclepius and Serapis.
> For a year: representing the course of the sun god Apollo, whom Jesus 
> was identified in the early church.
> Crucified on the cross: The cross was a Greek and Roman solar symbol 
> before it was taken over by the Christians.
> So that all who believes in him will be saved: The original theological 
> teaching of the early Christians.
>
> Other mythical elements include:
> He turned water into wine: An allusion to Bacchus, who did the same.
> Rode into Jerusalem on the foal of a ass, or on a Colt: another allusion 
> to Bacchus.
> Walked on water: allusion to Neptune.
> Healed the sick, made the blind see: Allusion to Asclepius and Serapis.
>
> So where is the historical Jesus? He is neither in the mythos nor the 
> logos.   "Historical" originally derived from the Greek and denoted 
> inquiry.   Therefore, to find the historical Jesus, we have to look 
> outside of the myth find accounts.  Unfortunately, there aren't any.  
> The Josephus account has been proven to be a Christian interpolation.  
> Tacitus' account of Nero blaming and persecuting the Christians for the 
> burning of Rome is very likely a later addition.  Philo the Jew was a 
> contemporary of the Biblical Jesus but does not mention a Jesus nor the 
> Jewish-Christians, though he thoroughly accounts for every Jewish sect. 
> The Roman have no record of him. 
> So, it is from this way of viewing things that HPB can express doubt 
> about the historicity of the person in the gospel accounts.  She never 
> says that the historical Jesus did not exist. She only says, truthfully, 
> that we honestly don't know anything for sure about him, even if he did 
> in fact exist.  So, she is leaving it open to the interpretation that 
> the Biblical Jesus is no more or less historical than the Heracles and 
> Asclepius of myth.  I have an old Roman coin here with a bust of Nero on 
> the obverse and a depiction of Heracles on the reverse.  The inscription 
> on the reverse says: HERAKLES SOTER: Heracles, Savior. 
> There are a lot of historical people who have been proposed as a model 
> upon which the Jesus story evolved.  Apollonius is one of them.  The 
> Jesus story could have been formulated upon distant memories of several 
> people and events.   We just don't know. 
> What we do know is that in literary style, the Gospel stories have all 
> the literary trappings of Greek myth. 
> Hope this helps.
>
> Best wishes,
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cass Silva wrote:
>
>  
> > Dear Morten and all
> > I am confused about Jesus.  HPB places Jesus as a historical fact, yet also says, if he in fact existed?  A Rosicrucian friend of mind believes that Apollonius of Tyana was the true world teacher, and believes that Jesus, the Carpenter is a fiction of the gnostics.
> >
> > Cass
> >
> > "M. Sufilight"  wrote: Hallo Vince and all,
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> >
> > There are the Seekers questions about spiritual or esoterical matters.
> > These question are in fact not always easily answered.
> > One reason being that Truth as such about such matters have to be experienced on a higher level
> > rather than digested by ordinary intellect or by emotional reactions.
> >
> > It from time to time happens, that the Seeker somehow finds himself or herself to WANT to
> > know about something.
> > And another issue is what the Seeker actually esoterically NEED to know about.
> > Sometimes there is a big difference there.
> > Ignorance about what one actually Needs to know about
> > when viewed from an high spiritual or esoterical level is
> > a problem the Seekers often faces.
> >
> > Questions which for instance request, that one answers by giving more than 64.000
> > examples of the faults in the Bible - are perhaps not that important.
> > And yet it might be so.
> > Now, if I was a master, I could most certainly create a rather huge email or a number of emails
> > showing the more than 64.000 faults in the Bible. The question is also, whether
> > i would do that, if there was a different and more important
> > need to attend to.
> >
> > Some of the faults have been written about by Blavatsky herself.
> > I have personally never read a book showing all the faults. 
> > It is also important, that The Liberal Catholic Church (LCC) or TS Adyar have never created 
> > an official scripture showing that. They completely seem to ignore this important fact.
> > One shall know people on their fruits. But, perhaps the famous author Dan Brown is 
> > planning a book on this, who knows. :-)
> > Actually such a book could be a devastating blow to the most narrowminded of the Catholic's 
> > and other similar creeds. Truth has always been a difficult task to the 
> > Church of Rome it seems.
> >
> > If you really think that you NEED to know about all these faults.
> > You could search the Internet, or elsewhere.
> > Perhaps Dallas or others connected to Blavatskt.net have more to
> > offer you on this than I am at the moment.
> >
> > If I only had 1-2.000 faults to write down.
> > I would publish a book about it - or perhaps offer the script to Dan Brown.
> > Just to see, what would happen. :-)
> >
> > I think, that some of the scholars with a theosophical or esoterical leaning
> > could easily find 1-2.000 faults.
> >
> > Here is one of the more wellknown faults.
> > Try this:
> > The Secret Doctrine, Vol. 3. 
> > http://www.theosophical.ca/SecDoctrine3B.htm ( Page 199)
> > Not everyone accept this volumes content though. 
> > Try original THE SECRET DOCTRINE on more information:
> > http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume2.htm 
> > (This is the Original online version. Although it is Without the Cover.)
> >
> > - - - - - - -
> > A Greek Orthodox, and Evangelical, and a Jesuit are doing an archeological dig in Jerusalem. They come across a Tomb that says, in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew, "Here lies Jesus of Nazareth, who claimed he was King of the Jews, and was executed at Passover under Pontius Pilate".
> >
> > Excited by the find, they open the tomb, only to be horrified to find a crucified body.
> >
> > "Oh my goodness," says the Orthodox. "The Church and all the good it does is based on a false event."
> >
> > "Oh my goodness," says the Evangelical. "The Bible, which has guided by entire life, is nothing but a lie."
> >
> > "Oh my goodness," says the Jesuit. "There really was a Jesus."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > from
> > M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Blab-away for as little as 1�/min. Make  PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >    
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 		
> ---------------------------------
> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>