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Mar 23, 2006 07:45 AM
by Vincent
LOLOL, That's a very funny story. I'm cracking up. But hey, let's go with the war anyway. Vince --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@...> wrote: > > Sorry, it's the irish in me. This might help understand my sense of humour. > Happy ST. Patrick?s Day!! > > Ireland Declares War on France > > French President Jacques Chirac is sitting in his > office when his telephone rings. > > "Hallo, Mr. Chirac!" a heavily accented voice said. > "This is Paddy Down at the Harp Pub in County Clare, Ireland. I am ringing > to inform you that we are officially declaring war on you!" > > "Well, Paddy," Chirac replied, "This is indeed important news! How big is > your army?" > > "Right now," says Paddy, after a moment?s > calculation, "there is meself, me Cousin Sean, me next door neighbour > Seamus, and the entire darts team from the pub. That makes eight!" > Chirac paused. "I must tell you, Paddy, that I have 100,000 men in my army > waiting to move on my command." > > "Begoora!" says Paddy. "I?ll have to ring you back...." > > Sure enough, the next day, Paddy calls again. "Mr. > Chirac, the war is still on. We have managed to get us some infantry > equipment!" > > "And what equipment would that be Paddy?" Chirac asks. > > "Well, we have two combines, a bulldozer, and > Murphy?s farm tractor." > > Chirac sighs amused. "I must tell you, Paddy, that I have 6,000 tanks and > 5,000 armored personnel carriers. Also, I have increased my army to 150,000 > since we last spoke." > "Saints preserve us!" says Paddy. "I?ll have to get back to you......" > > Sure enough, Paddy rings again the next day. "Mr. Chirac, the war is still > on! We have managed to get ourselves airborne! We > have modified Jackie McLaughlin?s ultra-light with a couple of shotguns > in the cockpit, and four boys from the Shamrock Bar have joined us as well!" > Chirac was silent for a minute and then cleared his > throat. "I must tell you, Paddy, that I have 100 bombers and 200 fighter > planes. My military bases are surrounded by laser-guided, surface- to-air > missile sites. And since we last spoke, I have increased my army to > 200,000!" "Begora!" says Paddy, "I will have to ring you back.........." > > Sure enough, Paddy calls again the next day. "Top > of? the mornin?, Mr. Chirac! I am sorry to inform you that we have had > to call off the war." "Really? I am sorry to hear that," says Chirac. > "Why the sudden change of heart?" "Well," says Paddy, "we had a long chat > over a few pints of Guinness, and decided there is no fookin? way > we can feed 200,000 prisoners!" > > > > Vincent <vblaz2004@...> wrote: Cass- > > What specific math are you referring to? Translational errors or > otherwise? > > Vince > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > > > She did the math > > Cass > > > > Vincent wrote: M Sufilight- > > > > Good advice. No assuming then. An easy snare to be sure. And > all > > too common when conversations are relegated to mere text, and not > > conducted face to face where genuine emotions are more visible. > > > > I'm curious. How did Blavatsky arrive at the number 64,000? And > > how precisely is such a thing relevant, as the same errors occur > in > > the translation of any text? > > > > Most Christians specifically assert that the Bible is inerrant > only > > in it's original manuscripts (namely the Old Testament Hebrew and > > New Testament Greek), and that translations outside of the > original > > languages are inherently prone to errors. There is a small > minority > > of Christians who assert that the English 1611 King James Version > is > > also infallibly translated, but such isn't a very wide view among > > common Christians of today. > > > > And who is Master Morya? A living teacher or a spirit guide? > > > > Vince > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" > > theosophy@> wrote: > > > > > > Hallo Vince and all, > > > > > > My views are: > > > > > > Let us not go around - assuming - what views the other emailer > has > > here at > > > Theos-talk. > > > If you would go back and read some of my earlier emails, > > > I think we will have to agree, that one could assume, the > > > same as you did in the below. > > > I will however encourage you not to assume too much at this > place. > > > > > > But as I have said to others. > > > I do care, you know... > > > I will always be there to if possible be of help to you... > > > > > > Let us all be happy... > > > > > > The 64.000 mistakes was a quote from Blavatsky. Blavatsky > > > was a founder of the Theosophical Society. > > > Blavatsky was as you know one of the chelas (theosophical > pupils) > > of Master > > > Morya. > > > > > > A drawing of how Morya (or the creature) sometimes looks like is > > here. > > > Blavatsky was involved in the drawing, when it took place. > > > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hpbphotos14.htm > > > And this is a - photo - of Damodar Mavalankar, 1884. > > > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hpbphotos20.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > M. Sufilight with peace and love... > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Vincent" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:42 AM > > > Subject: Theos-World Re: Hi there, I'm Vince and I am new to the > > group > > > > > > > > > >M Sufilight- > > > > > > > > 64,000 mistakes in the Bible? That sounds a little bit like > > > > overkill for your stance. There's only 30,000 verses. If > you're > > > > talking about translational inaccuracies, then such is true > for > > any > > > > language to language translation, sort of like when you > translate > > > > english to spanish or vice versa. You'll have one or two > > > > translational errors per sentence on a simple restaurant menu > or > > > > government sign. But who cares? Maybe you don't speak the > > original > > > > language. > > > > > > > > Now before you start a blood fued with me, please understand > > that I > > > > am not one of those fundamentalists who believe that the Bible > is > > > > infallible. I've not thrown any boomerangs at you. If you > have > > > > difficulty with the fact that I read the Bible, or any other > > > > metaphysical text, then I'll have to leave that on you. > > Ultimately, > > > > I prefer to rely on direct supernatural experience versus what > > > > someone tells me. > > > > > > > > Vince > > > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" > > > > theosophy@> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Hallo Vincent and all, > > > >> > > > >> My views are: > > > >> > > > >> This might be helpful in understanding it all much better. > > > >> > > > >> The following excerpt from an article by Blavatsky, 1879 > > mentions, > > > > that > > > >> there are according to her knowledge more than 64.000 > mistakes > > in > > > > the Bible. > > > >> > > > >> "NOT A CHRISTIAN"! > > > >> I have done; adding but one more word of advice to the > Review. > > In > > > > the last > > > >> quarter of the nineteenth century, when the latest > international > > > > revision of > > > >> the Bible-that infallible and revealed Word of God!-reveals > > 64,000 > > > >> mistranslations and other mistakes, it is not the > Theosophists-a > > > > large > > > >> number of whose members are English patriots and men of > > learning- > > > > but rather > > > >> the Christians who ought to beware of "wanton aggressiveness" > > > > against people > > > >> of other creeds. Their boomerangs may fly back from some > > > > unexpected parabola > > > >> and hit the throwers. > > > >> http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/NotAChristian.htm > > > >> > > > >> What the Bible tells us about various persons are not quite > true > > > >> according to the real events of the past. > > > >> Events, which Blavatsky said, that the Seeker after Truth > might > > > > learn to > > > >> read in the > > > >> Akashic light, (- that is - the non-physical recordings of > past > > > > events and > > > >> other issues.). > > > >> > > > >> Just some views. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> from > > > >> M. Sufilight with peace and love... > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> From: "Vincent" > > > >> To: > > > >> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:15 PM > > > >> Subject: Theos-World Re: Hi there, I'm Vince and I am new to > the > > > > group > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Steve- > > > >> > > > > >> > Who specifically are the 'masters' and are they ethical? > > > >> > The 'masters' that I've found in written texts mostly go > back > > to > > > > the > > > >> > Bible. I'm speaking of miracle workers such as Jesus, > Moses > > and > > > >> > Elijah, Peter and Paul. Some of these are reported as > having > > > > raised > > > >> > the dead or ascending itno heaven themselves. Metaphysical > > > > masters. > > > >> > > > > >> > But were these masters completely ethical? The miracles of > > Moses > > > >> > were mostly of a destructive nature, bringing ten plagues > on > > the > > > >> > Egyptians, and perhaps ten more on his own Israelites. > > Further, > > > > he > > > >> > and his immediate succussor Joshua were propagators of > > genocide, > > > >> > exterminating six nationalities from the face of the > earth. > > And > > > > the > > > >> > very angels of heaven which backed him, according to > biblical > > > >> > testimony, were also quite violent and genocidal. > > > >> > > > > >> > Likewise Elijah, who reportedly ascended directly into > heaven, > > > >> > bypassing physical death, also slew people with > supernatural > > fire > > > >> > from the sky. Despite resurrecting a dead boy, according > to > > the > > > >> > scriptures. > > > >> > > > > >> > Peter and Paul of the New Testament are also biblically > > recorded > > > > as > > > >> > each having resurrected the dead, and yet enforced harsh > > cultural > > > >> > legalisms on women in their day. > > > >> > > > > >> > What precisely is a 'master' and are 'masters' ethical? > > > >> > > > > >> > - > > > >> > > > > >> > It may even be asserted that the gods of ancient mythology > may > > > >> > actually have been immortal beings that once walked the > earth > > > > prior > > > >> > to recorded history as we have it today. But did these > > > >> > ancient 'gods' also practice good ethics? Or were some of > > them > > > >> > bloody and violent as well? > > > >> > > > > >> > - > > > >> > > > > >> > Now I suppose that there are different types of mastery > > available > > > >> > within the human potential, each with their own > jurisdictional > > > >> > spheres. One is a master of accounting, another a master at > > > > sales, > > > >> > another a master of corporate management, another a master > of > > > >> > artistry, literature or dance. Still others are masters of > > > > ethics > > > >> > but not wisdom, psychic mastery but not physical > athleticism. > > > >> > Whatever it may be. > > > >> > > > > >> > So again I ask: what precisely is a 'master'? And a master > of > > > > what? > > > >> > > > > >> > Vince > > > >> > > > > >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Vince > > > >> >> When you mention "wholistic" regarding the fact the > TS > > > >> > includes other works besides HPBs, you raise an interesting > > > > point. > > > >> >> I was originally involved with the TS years ago, and > I > > > > felt > > > >> > as if I had found a mother-lode of metaphysical occult > > > > literature. > > > >> > and this is true. Over the years, however, I found my own > > tastes > > > >> > changing from an open texture rather undisciplined sense of > > > > study to > > > >> > a "way" of my own, and I began to eliminate texts which, to > > me, > > > >> > where too indirect regarding the Path of individual work. I > > > > wanted > > > >> > to know what I needed to actually do to know Wisdom, which > > wisdom > > > >> > was really neccesary for my own "awakening", and most > > > > importantly- > > > >> > what are the Masters of Wisdom. I found that some texts were > > > >> > concerned with the fundemental teachings of the ancient > > wisdom, > > > >> > without concern for the author, just the learning of the > > > > student. I > > > >> > found that many were not and made claims of visions and > > > > knowledge, > > > >> > which seemed to me, to jump ahead of what I could verify as > > real. > > > >> > So, I kept finding myself going back to the fundemental > > teachings > > > >> > regarding the neccesary changes I had to make in me, with > > which I > > > >> > would know > > > >> >> what is real and what is not. My biggest problem was > always > > me > > > >> > and my lack of patience. I needed to rid myself of the so- > > called > > > >> > normal time sense of people in our time, which prompts us to > > > > quickly > > > >> > and prematurely aquire powers before we understand what > power > > > > is. I > > > >> > kept finding that some few texts want the student to find > out > > > > what a > > > >> > human being is, the knowledge of which I thought I had, > being > > > >> > preumptious and shallow. Which really means, that for a > > shallow > > > >> > nature to aquire power would be dangerous. > > > >> >> Therefore, I kept finding myself being attracted > back > > to > > > >> > HPB's writings, along with Patanjali, the Dalai Lama, and > > other > > > >> > insightful Buddhist thinkers like Santideva, who deal in > > ethical > > > >> > growth along side, but actually preceding, the metaphysical > > > > study, > > > >> > for the sake of psychological balance. Their motive is > > service as > > > >> > the key to finding out who you are and your capacities, > while > > an > > > >> > unbalanced study may still allow for selfishness, and > misuse > > of > > > >> > knowledge. > > > >> >> Well, thats the Path of study for me, but it came > > about > > > >> > through an open study of pretty much everything. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Steve > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Vincent wrote: > > > >> >> Steve- > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Actually, my primary intent for recently getting involved > > with > > > > the > > > >> >> Theosophical Society of Wheaton has mostly to do with > having > > a > > > >> > place > > > >> >> wherein I may freely believe what I already do, and learn > new > > > >> > things > > > >> >> of a metaphysical content as well. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> When I was formerly involved with Christian fundamentalist > > > >> > churches, > > > >> >> I found myself judged and restricted whenever attempting to > > > > bring > > > >> > up > > > >> >> metaphysical concepts in open discussion format. I was told > > > > that I > > > >> >> was not being 'doctrinal', and that my metaphysical > > experiences > > > >> >> were 'demonic', insofar as they were not strictly aligned > > with > > > >> >> Christian doctrine. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> However, my initial impression of the Theosophical Society > is > > > > that > > > >> >> it is accepting of a variety of religious traditions, and > not > > > >> > solely > > > >> >> specific to HPB's writings. It is more wholistic. Please > > correct > > > >> >> me if I am wrong on this. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Vince > > > >> >> > > > >> >> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > Ah Vince, that's a mighty deep rational you have for > what > > you > > > >> > do. > > > >> >> Hopefully you will get from us exactly what you aught. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > Steve > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > Vincent wrote: > > > >> >> > Steve- > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > I appreciate your insight and your suggestion, and I see > > the > > > >> > value > > > >> >> > to it. It's just that at this specific time in my life, > my > > > > focus > > > >> >> > must be a little bit different. In other words, I've > > already > > > >> >> poured > > > >> >> > many thousands of hours into various metaphysical texts > > over > > > > the > > > >> >> > last twenty years, and have therefore arrived at a very > > > > complex > > > >> >> and > > > >> >> > advanced metaphysical belief system as a result. At this > > > > time, I > > > >> >> am > > > >> >> > undertaking the attempt to write a volume as large as > > HPB's, > > > > and > > > >> >> > therefore cannot dedicate fully researching a brand new > > text. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > I suggest that there exist the roles of teachers whose > > > > specific > > > >> >> task > > > >> >> > is to dispense information to others, if they do not > have > > the > > > >> >> > immediate time and energy to gather it for themselves. > I'm > > not > > > >> >> > saying that direct readings of HPB lack value in any way. > > > > That's > > > >> >> > just not where I'm at right now. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > Currently, I engage in trance conditioning through > natural > > > >> >> > physiological disciplines, without the use of chemical > > > >> > modifiers. > > > >> >> > This means that I interact directly with spirit entities, > > > > seeing > > > >> >> > them and hearing them when I enter into trance. And this > is > > > > the > > > >> >> > level from whence my writings will manifest inspiration. > I > > am > > > >> > just > > > >> >> > curious to see what degree of alignment exists between > > HPB's > > > >> >> > writings and my own belief system at this time, so I'd > > like to > > > >> >> learn > > > >> >> > more through those gifted teachers and students of HPB. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > Vince > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Vince > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > I am aware of how daunting the very thickness of these > > > >> >> > texts can appear, but I really think that you are doing > > > > yourself > > > >> > a > > > >> >> > great disservice, by not doing the study yourself, and > > > > expecting > > > >> >> > others to, sort of, hand it to you in some palatable form > > > >> > intended > > > >> >> > just for you. This is a great deal like going to church > or > > > >> > temple > > > >> >> > and expecting the paid servent on the pulpit to do the > same > > > >> > thing. > > > >> >> > > Now please, don't take this wrong, but an important > > aspect > > > >> >> > of the philosophy of becoming a discriminating human > being > > and > > > >> >> > student, is, so that what you find for yourself will be > > > >> > something > > > >> >> > you can trust in. "We are all Gods", says the ancient > > wisdom, > > > >> >> > or "You too can do what I have done" as Jesus says. In > > other > > > >> >> words, > > > >> >> > we have what we need within us, we just have to flesh it > > out. > > > >> > That > > > >> >> > is the purpose of theosophical thought, not the > > memorization > > > > of > > > >> >> > thick texts. But the study of them, and application of > > what we > > > >> > see > > > >> >> > as true, brings rewards immediately, as the mind wakes > up > > to > > > > its > > > >> >> own > > > >> >> > powers of wisdom and discrimination. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Steve > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Vincent wrote: > > > >> >> > > Steve- > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > I'm just trying to understand what I can about > Theosophy, > > > >> >> insofar > > > >> >> > as > > > >> >> > > it is new to me. HPB's writings are so extensive in > such > > > > large > > > >> >> > > volumes that I'm honestly a little bit daunted as to > > where > > > > to > > > >> >> > begin, > > > >> >> > > so I'm likely going to be relying on secondary > > abridgments > > > > for > > > >> >> > > awhile. In other words, someone's probably going to > have > > to > > > >> >> teach > > > >> >> > > it to me in the form of abridged quotes, before I get > > into > > > >> >> > extensive > > > >> >> > > reading of the core volumes. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Christians claim that the Bible contains 'absolute > > truth', > > > >> > both > > > >> >> > > inerrant and infallible. But this then leaves those > > portions > > > >> > of > > > >> >> > > universal truth concerning which we lack a firm and > total > > > >> > grasp. > > > >> >> > > Namely 'occult' truth, or anything which has not been > > > > declared > > > >> >> to > > > >> >> > > be 'absolute truth' by the Christian community. Hence > > > >> > universal > > > >> >> > > truth may potentially be subdivided into categories > > > >> > of 'absolute > > > >> >> > > truth' and 'occult truth'. Of course, I don't believe > > that > > > > any > > > >> >> of > > > >> >> > > us really has a firm grasp on 'absolute truth' in the > > first > > > >> >> place, > > > >> >> > > insofar as our minds are mortal, and we commonly have > > errors > > > >> >> > > somewhere in every belief that we hold, whether small > or > > > >> > great. > > > >> >> > > Hence so many different biblical interpretations among > > > >> >> Christians. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Vince- > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Your intution about the reason for the term "Secret" > in > > > > The > > > >> >> > > Secret Doctrine is somewhat correct, but, it is also a > > bit > > > > to > > > >> >> > quick > > > >> >> > > a judgement. I'm afraid you are going to have to study > > the > > > >> >> thing, > > > >> >> > to > > > >> >> > > get a really good idea about the use of her terms. > > However, > > > > in > > > >> >> > doing > > > >> >> > > so, I found it wise to read HPB in a thorough way to > > begin > > > > to > > > >> >> > > undestand her motivation. By this I mean, read The Key > to > > > >> >> > Theosophy, > > > >> >> > > and study The Voice of the Silence, as well, or > something > > > > like > > > >> >> > that. > > > >> >> > > Or, pick up one of her collected writtings of shorter > > > >> > articles, > > > >> >> or > > > >> >> > > the Panarion. Mostly all of these are available at the > > > > Public > > > >> >> > > Library, but definately on-line or in Theosophy Lodges > of > > > >> >> > different > > > >> >> > > types. > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Good Searching-Steve > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Vincent Blazina wrote: > > > >> >> > > > Perry: > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Thanks for the welcome. The Jehovah's Witnesses that > > you > > > >> > refer > > > >> >> > > also seem to have some narrow biblical > interpretations, > > much > > > >> >> like > > > >> >> > > Christian fundamentalists. I'm curious about what some > of > > > > the > > > >> >> > > similarities and differences are between the Bible and > > the > > > >> >> Secret > > > >> >> > > Doctrine. Why is the Secret Doctrine considered to be > > > > secret? > > > >> >> Does > > > >> >> > > this simply mean that it is occult (meaning hidden) in > > > > nature? > > > >> >> My > > > >> >> > > own biblical interpretations go very deep for me, and > are > > > >> >> anything > > > >> >> > > but dry, although I view Christian fundamentalists as > > often > > > >> >> > shallow > > > >> >> > > in their own biblical interpretations much of the time. > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Vince > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > plcoles1 > > > >> >> > > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > Hello Vince, > > > >> >> > > > Welcome to theos-talk! > > > >> >> > > > My background was in the Jehovah's Witnesses and so > as > > a > > > >> >> result > > > >> >> > > had what amounted to at > > > >> >> > > > least 5 1/2 hours a week of meetings to attend, and > NO > > > >> >> > questioning > > > >> >> > > what you were being > > > >> >> > > > told. > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > The thing I've found with studying theosophy for > > someone > > > > who > > > >> >> has > > > >> >> > > studied the Bible is > > > >> >> > > > that theosophy and in particular the Secret Doctrine > > opens > > > >> > up > > > >> >> > many > > > >> >> > > interesting and > > > >> >> > > > profound interpretations of passages in the Bible. > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > An interesting article written by H.P Blavatsky is > `The > > > >> >> Esoteric > > > >> >> > > character of the Gospels' > > > >> >> > > > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-sio/sio- > > eso2.htm > > > >> >> > > > It's a good place to start as the Secret Doctrine > can > > be a > > > >> >> > little > > > >> >> > > bit daunting to begin with. > > === message truncated === > > > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >