Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt01302)

This is a lot of good information.  Thanks much.

Vince

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@...> wrote:
>
>   Why so many bibles? Taken off the web
> It seems to me that many ancient philosophical works have been 
translated from the original and remain consistent with the message 
of the original work.  Why , then, the supposed revelationary book 
of all books, cannot be agreed upon?
> Cass
> 
> But archaeologists started digging up heaps of old manuscripts, 
much older than the ones Erasmus used. Much, much older. Now most of 
the them were similar to the ones Erasmus used - no problem there. 
But some of them weren't. The differences weren't huge, but they 
were bigger than the usual spelling mistakes and so on. it was like 
there were 2 different families of manuscripts. now 80 - 90% of 
manuscripts found are similar to those Erasmus used, and they are 
called Byzantine, after the area in Greece. The ones that are 
different generally come from around Egypt, so they are called 
Alexandrine, after the city of Alexandria.
>  
>  The question is, which are right?
>  
>  The alexandrine are older. Egypt has a dry climate which is 
wonderful for preserving old documents. Now some people say "the 
older the better, so the alexandrine must be right". But others 
say "hang on its not that simple."
>  
>  The original letters were mostly to the Corinthians, Ephesians, 
Colosians, all cities in Greece or round there. The only 2 that 
weren't were Mark and Romans, which went to Rome. There is no letter 
to the Egyptians or Alexandrines in the Bible. So the Greeks had 
access to the originals while they lasted. The alexandrines didn't.
>  
>  Also the Byzantine manuscripts are in the vast majority. Now if 
you had two manuscripts to choose from, wouldn't you copy the best 
one?
>  
>  Also Greek is the Greeks native language, it wasn't the Egyptians 
native language. You are more likely to make a mistake copying 
something that is not in your native language.
>  
>  Also the alexandrine manuscripts tend to disagree with each other 
as well. In fact the 2 best ones disagree with each other over 3000 
times in the gospels. That's not encouraging.
>  
>  Also the church was strongest in the Greek area. That's where 
Paul went on his journeys, it was in Antioch that Christ followers 
were first called Christians. Egypt had problems with a bunch of 
people called Gnostics who disagreed with Christianity. They were a 
pretty diverse group, but basically they thought the world was evil, 
so any god who created it must be evil. They thought that dying was 
good because it meant you escaped. Since death came through the 
serpent in the garden of Eden, they thought the serpent was the 
hero. Now Gnostics were a problem for the church all over, but most 
of what we know about them comes from a library of Gnostic materials 
discovered in a place called "Nag Hammandi" , in surprise surprise, 
Egypt. It is possible that those in the Alexandine manuscripts were 
not accidental mistakes at all, but Gnostics changing things they 
disagreed with.
>  
>  So which is right?
>  Did the Byzantines try to "smooth out" the original alexandrine 
manuscripts, or did some Gnostics or proto-Gnostics corrupt the 
original Byzantine manuscripts?
>  Is the fact that the alexandrine manuscripts are older simply an 
accident of geography?
>  Is the fact that Byzantine manuscripts are the vast majority also 
an accident of geography?
>  
>  The people who think the alexandrine manuscripts are best have 
produced a Greek text also known as the critical text. Those who 
think the byzantine are better have produced a greek text known as 
the majority text. On your handout you can see which manuscripts 
different versions of the bible use.
>  
>  But does it really matter?
>    
>   Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will 
toward men. (AV/MKJV/KJ21)
>  Glory in the highest to God, and upon earth peace, among men - 
good will. (YLT)
>  
>  Glory to God in the highest, On earth peace, good will toward men 
(WEB)
>  Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with 
whom He is pleased (NASB)
>  
>  Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom 
his favour rests (NIV)
>  Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men in whom 
he is well pleased. (ASV)
>  Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men with 
whom he is pleased! (RSV)
>  
>  Glory to God in the heavenly heights, Peace to all men and women 
on earth who please him (Message)
>  Praise God in heaven! Peace on earth to everyone who pleases God. 
(CEV)
>   
> 
> Vincent <vblaz2004@...> wrote: M Sufilight-
> 
> First you say:
> 
> "We, the non-dogmatic theosophists do not keep Bibles."
> 
> This strikes me as a misrepresentation.  I'm attending a class at 
> the Theosophical Society of Wheaton at this moment which expressly 
> uses biblical quotations in it's written class materials.  Many 
> theosophists do indeed keep Bibles.  And they are not dogmatic 
about 
> it either.
> 
> Secondly you say:
> 
> "We cull the good we find in each system of thought and in life."
> 
> Yet your second statement contradicts your first.  Apparently you 
do 
> not cull the good that you find in the Bible, if in fact you do 
not 
> keep Bibles.  Rather, you label those who keep Bibles as dogmatic.
> 
> Vince
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" 
> theosophy@> wrote:
> >
> > Hallo all,
> > 
> > My views are:
> > 
> > A few words on the Christian Bible.
> > http://theosophy.com/theos-talk/200212/tt00297.html (The 
link 
> was written to a fellow named Wry in 2002)
> > 
> > We, the non-dogmatic theosophists do not keep Bibles.
> > We cull the good we find in each system of thought and in life.
> > 
> > - - - - - - -
> > A theosophical exchange in a corridor at the local TS
> > 
> > WISE MEMBERSHIPS
> > As an example, there is the one in which two mothers talk about 
> their sons.
> > One says, "And how is your boy getting on as a guru?"
> > "Just fine," replies the second. "He has so many pupils that he 
> can afford to get rid of some of the old ones."
> > "That's great," says the first. "My son is getting on so well 
that 
> he can afford NOT to take on everyone who applies to him!"
> > 
> > Just  a few views...
> > 
> > 
> > from
> > M. Sufilight with some Middle Eastern rugrats with Soul 
> Force...and x-filebags... 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
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> 
>  
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> 
> 		
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