Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt01184)

M Sufilight-

Good advice.  No assuming then.  An easy snare to be sure.  And all 
too common when conversations are relegated to mere text, and not 
conducted face to face where genuine emotions are more visible.

I'm curious.  How did Blavatsky arrive at the number 64,000?  And 
how precisely is such a thing relevant, as the same errors occur in 
the translation of any text?

Most Christians specifically assert that the Bible is inerrant only 
in it's original manuscripts (namely the Old Testament Hebrew and 
New Testament Greek), and that translations outside of the original 
languages are inherently prone to errors.  There is a small minority 
of Christians who assert that the English 1611 King James Version is 
also infallibly translated, but such isn't a very wide view among 
common Christians of today.

And who is Master Morya?  A living teacher or a spirit guide?

Vince

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-
theosophy@...> wrote:
>
> Hallo Vince and all,
> 
> My views are:
> 
> Let us not go around - assuming - what views the other emailer has 
here at 
> Theos-talk.
> If you would go back and read some of my earlier emails,
> I think we will have to agree, that one could assume, the
> same as you did in the below.
> I will however encourage you not to assume too much at this place.
> 
> But as I have said to others.
> I do care, you know...
> I will always be there to if possible be of help to you...
> 
> Let us all be happy...
> 
> The 64.000 mistakes was a quote from Blavatsky. Blavatsky
> was a founder of the Theosophical Society.
> Blavatsky was as you know one of the chelas (theosophical pupils) 
of Master 
> Morya.
> 
> A drawing of how Morya (or the creature) sometimes looks like is 
here.
> Blavatsky was involved in the drawing, when it took place. 
> http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hpbphotos14.htm
> And this is a - photo - of Damodar Mavalankar, 1884.
> http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hpbphotos20.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Vincent" <vblaz2004@...>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:42 AM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: Hi there, I'm Vince and I am new to the 
group
> 
> 
> >M Sufilight-
> >
> > 64,000 mistakes in the Bible?  That sounds a little bit like
> > overkill for your stance.  There's only 30,000 verses.  If you're
> > talking about translational inaccuracies, then such is true for 
any
> > language to language translation, sort of like when you translate
> > english to spanish or vice versa.  You'll have one or two
> > translational errors per sentence on a simple restaurant menu or
> > government sign.  But who cares?  Maybe you don't speak the 
original
> > language.
> >
> > Now before you start a blood fued with me, please understand 
that I
> > am not one of those fundamentalists who believe that the Bible is
> > infallible.  I've not thrown any boomerangs at you.  If you have
> > difficulty with the fact that I read the Bible, or any other
> > metaphysical text, then I'll have to leave that on you.  
Ultimately,
> > I prefer to rely on direct supernatural experience versus what
> > someone tells me.
> >
> > Vince
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-
> > theosophy@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hallo Vincent and all,
> >>
> >> My views are:
> >>
> >> This might be helpful in understanding it all much better.
> >>
> >> The following excerpt from an article by Blavatsky, 1879 
mentions,
> > that
> >> there are according to her knowledge more than 64.000 mistakes 
in
> > the Bible.
> >>
> >> "NOT A CHRISTIAN"!
> >> I have done; adding but one more word of advice to the Review. 
In
> > the last
> >> quarter of the nineteenth century, when the latest international
> > revision of
> >> the Bible-that infallible and revealed Word of God!-reveals 
64,000
> >> mistranslations and other mistakes, it is not the Theosophists-a
> > large
> >> number of whose members are English patriots and men of 
learning-
> > but rather
> >> the Christians who ought to beware of "wanton aggressiveness"
> > against people
> >> of other creeds. Their boomerangs may fly back from some
> > unexpected parabola
> >> and hit the throwers.
> >> http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/NotAChristian.htm
> >>
> >> What the Bible tells us about various persons are not quite true
> >> according to the real events of the past.
> >> Events, which Blavatsky said, that the Seeker after Truth might
> > learn to
> >> read in the
> >> Akashic light, (- that is - the non-physical recordings of past
> > events and
> >> other issues.).
> >>
> >> Just some views.
> >>
> >>
> >> from
> >> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Vincent" <vblaz2004@>
> >> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:15 PM
> >> Subject: Theos-World Re: Hi there, I'm Vince and I am new to the
> > group
> >>
> >>
> >> > Steve-
> >> >
> >> > Who specifically are the 'masters' and are they ethical?
> >> > The 'masters' that I've found in written texts mostly go back 
to
> > the
> >> > Bible.  I'm speaking of miracle workers such as Jesus, Moses 
and
> >> > Elijah, Peter and Paul.  Some of these are reported as having
> > raised
> >> > the dead or ascending itno heaven themselves.  Metaphysical
> > masters.
> >> >
> >> > But were these masters completely ethical?  The miracles of 
Moses
> >> > were mostly of a destructive nature, bringing ten plagues on 
the
> >> > Egyptians, and perhaps ten more on his own Israelites.  
Further,
> > he
> >> > and his immediate succussor Joshua were propagators of 
genocide,
> >> > exterminating six nationalities from the face of the earth.  
And
> > the
> >> > very angels of heaven which backed him, according to biblical
> >> > testimony, were also quite violent and genocidal.
> >> >
> >> > Likewise Elijah, who reportedly ascended directly into heaven,
> >> > bypassing physical death, also slew people with supernatural 
fire
> >> > from the sky.  Despite resurrecting a dead boy, according to 
the
> >> > scriptures.
> >> >
> >> > Peter and Paul of the New Testament are also biblically 
recorded
> > as
> >> > each having resurrected the dead, and yet enforced harsh 
cultural
> >> > legalisms on women in their day.
> >> >
> >> > What precisely is a 'master' and are 'masters' ethical?
> >> >
> >> > -
> >> >
> >> > It may even be asserted that the gods of ancient mythology may
> >> > actually have been immortal beings that once walked the earth
> > prior
> >> > to recorded history as we have it today.  But did these
> >> > ancient 'gods' also practice good ethics?  Or were some of 
them
> >> > bloody and violent as well?
> >> >
> >> > -
> >> >
> >> > Now I suppose that there are different types of mastery 
available
> >> > within the human potential, each with their own jurisdictional
> >> > spheres.  One is a master of accounting, another a master at
> > sales,
> >> > another a master of corporate management, another a master of
> >> > artistry, literature or dance.  Still others are masters of
> > ethics
> >> > but not wisdom, psychic mastery but not physical athleticism.
> >> > Whatever it may be.
> >> >
> >> > So again I ask: what precisely is a 'master'?  And a master of
> > what?
> >> >
> >> > Vince
> >> >
> >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey <sallev1@> 
wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Vince
> >> >>        When you mention "wholistic" regarding the fact the TS
> >> > includes other works besides HPBs, you raise an interesting
> > point.
> >> >>       I was originally involved with the TS years ago, and I
> > felt
> >> > as if I had found a mother-lode of metaphysical occult
> > literature.
> >> > and this is true. Over the years, however, I found my own 
tastes
> >> > changing from an open texture rather undisciplined sense of
> > study to
> >> > a "way" of my own, and I began to eliminate texts which, to 
me,
> >> > where too indirect regarding the Path of individual work. I
> > wanted
> >> > to know what I needed to actually do to know Wisdom, which 
wisdom
> >> > was really neccesary for my own "awakening", and most
> > importantly-
> >> > what are the Masters of Wisdom. I found that some texts were
> >> > concerned with the fundemental teachings of the ancient 
wisdom,
> >> > without concern for the author, just the learning of the
> > student. I
> >> > found that many were not and made claims of visions and
> > knowledge,
> >> > which seemed to me, to jump ahead of what I could verify as 
real.
> >> > So, I kept finding myself going back to the fundemental 
teachings
> >> > regarding the neccesary changes I had to make in me, with 
which I
> >> > would know
> >> >>  what is real and what is not. My biggest problem was always 
me
> >> > and my  lack of patience. I needed to rid myself of the so-
called
> >> > normal time sense of people in our time, which prompts us to
> > quickly
> >> > and prematurely aquire powers before we understand what power
> > is. I
> >> > kept finding that some few texts want the student to find out
> > what a
> >> > human being is, the knowledge of which I thought I had, being
> >> > preumptious and shallow. Which really means, that for a 
shallow
> >> > nature to aquire power would be dangerous.
> >> >>        Therefore, I kept finding myself being attracted back 
to
> >> > HPB's writings, along with Patanjali, the Dalai Lama, and 
other
> >> > insightful Buddhist thinkers like Santideva, who deal in 
ethical
> >> > growth along side, but actually preceding, the metaphysical
> > study,
> >> > for the sake of psychological balance. Their motive is 
service as
> >> > the key to finding out who you are and your capacities, while 
an
> >> > unbalanced study may still allow for selfishness, and misuse 
of
> >> > knowledge.
> >> >>        Well, thats the Path of study for me, but it came 
about
> >> > through an open study of pretty much everything.
> >> >>
> >> >>   Steve
> >> >>
> >> >> Vincent <vblaz2004@> wrote:
> >> >>   Steve-
> >> >>
> >> >> Actually, my primary intent for recently getting involved 
with
> > the
> >> >> Theosophical Society of Wheaton has mostly to do with having 
a
> >> > place
> >> >> wherein I may freely believe what I already do, and learn new
> >> > things
> >> >> of a metaphysical content as well.
> >> >>
> >> >> When I was formerly involved with Christian fundamentalist
> >> > churches,
> >> >> I found myself judged and restricted whenever attempting to
> > bring
> >> > up
> >> >> metaphysical concepts in open discussion format. I was told
> > that I
> >> >> was not being 'doctrinal', and that my metaphysical 
experiences
> >> >> were 'demonic', insofar as they were not strictly aligned 
with
> >> >> Christian doctrine.
> >> >>
> >> >> However, my initial impression of the Theosophical Society is
> > that
> >> >> it is accepting of a variety of religious traditions, and not
> >> > solely
> >> >> specific to HPB's writings. It is more wholistic. Please 
correct
> >> >> me if I am wrong on this.
> >> >>
> >> >> Vince
> >> >>
> >> >> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Ah Vince, that's a mighty deep rational you have for what 
you
> >> > do.
> >> >> Hopefully you will get from us exactly what you aught.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Steve
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Vincent wrote:
> >> >> > Steve-
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I appreciate your insight and your suggestion, and I see 
the
> >> > value
> >> >> > to it. It's just that at this specific time in my life, my
> > focus
> >> >> > must be a little bit different. In other words, I've 
already
> >> >> poured
> >> >> > many thousands of hours into various metaphysical texts 
over
> > the
> >> >> > last twenty years, and have therefore arrived at a very
> > complex
> >> >> and
> >> >> > advanced metaphysical belief system as a result. At this
> > time, I
> >> >> am
> >> >> > undertaking the attempt to write a volume as large as 
HPB's,
> > and
> >> >> > therefore cannot dedicate fully researching a brand new 
text.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I suggest that there exist the roles of teachers whose
> > specific
> >> >> task
> >> >> > is to dispense information to others, if they do not have 
the
> >> >> > immediate time and energy to gather it for themselves. I'm 
not
> >> >> > saying that direct readings of HPB lack value in any way.
> > That's
> >> >> > just not where I'm at right now.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Currently, I engage in trance conditioning through natural
> >> >> > physiological disciplines, without the use of chemical
> >> > modifiers.
> >> >> > This means that I interact directly with spirit entities,
> > seeing
> >> >> > them and hearing them when I enter into trance. And this is
> > the
> >> >> > level from whence my writings will manifest inspiration. I 
am
> >> > just
> >> >> > curious to see what degree of alignment exists between 
HPB's
> >> >> > writings and my own belief system at this time, so I'd 
like to
> >> >> learn
> >> >> > more through those gifted teachers and students of HPB.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Vince
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Vince
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I am aware of how daunting the very thickness of these
> >> >> > texts can appear, but I really think that you are doing
> > yourself
> >> > a
> >> >> > great disservice, by not doing the study yourself, and
> > expecting
> >> >> > others to, sort of, hand it to you in some palatable form
> >> > intended
> >> >> > just for you. This is a great deal like going to church or
> >> > temple
> >> >> > and expecting the paid servent on the pulpit to do the same
> >> > thing.
> >> >> > > Now please, don't take this wrong, but an important 
aspect
> >> >> > of the philosophy of becoming a discriminating human being 
and
> >> >> > student, is, so that what you find for yourself will be
> >> > something
> >> >> > you can trust in. "We are all Gods", says the ancient 
wisdom,
> >> >> > or "You too can do what I have done" as Jesus says. In 
other
> >> >> words,
> >> >> > we have what we need within us, we just have to flesh it 
out.
> >> > That
> >> >> > is the purpose of theosophical thought, not the 
memorization
> > of
> >> >> > thick texts. But the study of them, and application of 
what we
> >> > see
> >> >> > as true, brings rewards immediately, as the mind wakes up 
to
> > its
> >> >> own
> >> >> > powers of wisdom and discrimination.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Steve
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Vincent wrote:
> >> >> > > Steve-
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I'm just trying to understand what I can about Theosophy,
> >> >> insofar
> >> >> > as
> >> >> > > it is new to me. HPB's writings are so extensive in such
> > large
> >> >> > > volumes that I'm honestly a little bit daunted as to 
where
> > to
> >> >> > begin,
> >> >> > > so I'm likely going to be relying on secondary 
abridgments
> > for
> >> >> > > awhile. In other words, someone's probably going to have 
to
> >> >> teach
> >> >> > > it to me in the form of abridged quotes, before I get 
into
> >> >> > extensive
> >> >> > > reading of the core volumes.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Christians claim that the Bible contains 'absolute 
truth',
> >> > both
> >> >> > > inerrant and infallible. But this then leaves those 
portions
> >> > of
> >> >> > > universal truth concerning which we lack a firm and total
> >> > grasp.
> >> >> > > Namely 'occult' truth, or anything which has not been
> > declared
> >> >> to
> >> >> > > be 'absolute truth' by the Christian community. Hence
> >> > universal
> >> >> > > truth may potentially be subdivided into categories
> >> > of 'absolute
> >> >> > > truth' and 'occult truth'. Of course, I don't believe 
that
> > any
> >> >> of
> >> >> > > us really has a firm grasp on 'absolute truth' in the 
first
> >> >> place,
> >> >> > > insofar as our minds are mortal, and we commonly have 
errors
> >> >> > > somewhere in every belief that we hold, whether small or
> >> > great.
> >> >> > > Hence so many different biblical interpretations among
> >> >> Christians.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote:
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Vince-
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Your intution about the reason for the term "Secret" in
> > The
> >> >> > > Secret Doctrine is somewhat correct, but, it is also a 
bit
> > to
> >> >> > quick
> >> >> > > a judgement. I'm afraid you are going to have to study 
the
> >> >> thing,
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > > get a really good idea about the use of her terms. 
However,
> > in
> >> >> > doing
> >> >> > > so, I found it wise to read HPB in a thorough way to 
begin
> > to
> >> >> > > undestand her motivation. By this I mean, read The Key to
> >> >> > Theosophy,
> >> >> > > and study The Voice of the Silence, as well, or something
> > like
> >> >> > that.
> >> >> > > Or, pick up one of her collected writtings of shorter
> >> > articles,
> >> >> or
> >> >> > > the Panarion. Mostly all of these are available at the
> > Public
> >> >> > > Library, but definately on-line or in Theosophy Lodges of
> >> >> > different
> >> >> > > types.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Good Searching-Steve
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Vincent Blazina wrote:
> >> >> > > > Perry:
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Thanks for the welcome. The Jehovah's Witnesses that 
you
> >> > refer
> >> >> > > also seem to have some narrow biblical interpretations, 
much
> >> >> like
> >> >> > > Christian fundamentalists. I'm curious about what some of
> > the
> >> >> > > similarities and differences are between the Bible and 
the
> >> >> Secret
> >> >> > > Doctrine. Why is the Secret Doctrine considered to be
> > secret?
> >> >> Does
> >> >> > > this simply mean that it is occult (meaning hidden) in
> > nature?
> >> >> My
> >> >> > > own biblical interpretations go very deep for me, and are
> >> >> anything
> >> >> > > but dry, although I view Christian fundamentalists as 
often
> >> >> > shallow
> >> >> > > in their own biblical interpretations much of the time.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Vince
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > plcoles1
> >> >> > > > wrote:
> >> >> > > > Hello Vince,
> >> >> > > > Welcome to theos-talk!
> >> >> > > > My background was in the Jehovah's Witnesses and so as 
a
> >> >> result
> >> >> > > had what amounted to at
> >> >> > > > least 5 1/2 hours a week of meetings to attend, and NO
> >> >> > questioning
> >> >> > > what you were being
> >> >> > > > told.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > The thing I've found with studying theosophy for 
someone
> > who
> >> >> has
> >> >> > > studied the Bible is
> >> >> > > > that theosophy and in particular the Secret Doctrine 
opens
> >> > up
> >> >> > many
> >> >> > > interesting and
> >> >> > > > profound interpretations of passages in the Bible.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > An interesting article written by H.P Blavatsky is `The
> >> >> Esoteric
> >> >> > > character of the Gospels'
> >> >> > > > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-sio/sio-
eso2.htm
> >> >> > > > It's a good place to start as the Secret Doctrine can 
be a
> >> >> > little
> >> >> > > bit daunting to begin with.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > After only hearing what was to me very empty and dry
> >> >> > > interpretations of the Bible,
> >> >> > > > theosophy can help you to begin to get some kind of
> >> >> > understanding
> >> >> > > as to the deeper
> >> >> > > > meaning in the bible as well as what other great 
thinkers,
> >> >> sages
> >> >> > > and philosophers from
> >> >> > > > various traditions have taught on these subjects which 
may
> >> >> help
> >> >> > > you have some context
> >> >> > > > and reference point for your own experiences.
> >> >> > > > Very Best Wishes on your Spiritual journey and once 
again
> >> >> > Welcome
> >> >> > > to the theos-talk!
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Regards
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Perry
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "vblaz20042004" 
wrote:
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > Hi there, I'm Vince and I am new to the group. I have
> >> >> recently
> >> >> > > been
> >> >> > > > > attending the Theosophical Society of Wheaton, 
Illinois
> >> > for
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > > past
> >> >> > > > > month, and have been enjoying the various teachings 
and
> >> >> > > discussions
> >> >> > > > > at that facility.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > My life has been rich with metaphysical experiences, 
but
> >> > the
> >> >> > > > > Christian Fundamentalist churches that I had 
previously
> >> >> > attended
> >> >> > > for
> >> >> > > > > twenty years got very judgmental towards me when I 
might
> >> >> > venture
> >> >> > > to
> >> >> > > > > reference them. I also began finding many
> > inconsistencies
> >> >> with
> >> >> > > the
> >> >> > > > > way that many Christians were representing the Bible,
> > and
> >> > my
> >> >> > > > > questions about Christianity were often deemed 
dangerous
> >> > to
> >> >> > > people's
> >> >> > > > > religious faith.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > I am looking for a place in the Theosophical Society
> >> > wherein
> >> >> I
> >> >> > > may
> >> >> > > > > potentially freely discuss metaphysical issues as 
they
> >> >> > directly
> >> >> > > > > pertain to my life, with people who are more open to
> > such
> >> >> > > > > discussions. I am very well read with the Bible,
> > although
> >> > my
> >> >> > > > > interpretations of it are more metaphysical versus
> >> > orthodox.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > I look forward to constuctive discussion with the 
people
> >> >> here,
> >> >> > > and
> >> >> > > > > would like to learn more about the Theosophical 
Society
> >> > and
> >> >> > it's
> >> >> > > > > perspectives, insofar as many of them are brand new 
to
> > me.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > Thank you,
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > Vince
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > ---------------------------------
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> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
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> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > ---------------------------------
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> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
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> >> >>
> >> >> ---------------------------------
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