Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt01148)

M Sufilight-

64,000 mistakes in the Bible?  That sounds a little bit like 
overkill for your stance.  There's only 30,000 verses.  If you're 
talking about translational inaccuracies, then such is true for any 
language to language translation, sort of like when you translate 
english to spanish or vice versa.  You'll have one or two 
translational errors per sentence on a simple restaurant menu or 
government sign.  But who cares?  Maybe you don't speak the original 
language.

Now before you start a blood fued with me, please understand that I 
am not one of those fundamentalists who believe that the Bible is 
infallible.  I've not thrown any boomerangs at you.  If you have 
difficulty with the fact that I read the Bible, or any other 
metaphysical text, then I'll have to leave that on you.  Ultimately, 
I prefer to rely on direct supernatural experience versus what 
someone tells me.

Vince

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-
theosophy@...> wrote:
>
> Hallo Vincent and all,
> 
> My views are:
> 
> This might be helpful in understanding it all much better.
> 
> The following excerpt from an article by Blavatsky, 1879 mentions, 
that 
> there are according to her knowledge more than 64.000 mistakes in 
the Bible.
> 
> "NOT A CHRISTIAN"!
> I have done; adding but one more word of advice to the Review. In 
the last 
> quarter of the nineteenth century, when the latest international 
revision of 
> the Bible-that infallible and revealed Word of God!-reveals 64,000 
> mistranslations and other mistakes, it is not the Theosophists-a 
large 
> number of whose members are English patriots and men of learning-
but rather 
> the Christians who ought to beware of "wanton aggressiveness" 
against people 
> of other creeds. Their boomerangs may fly back from some 
unexpected parabola 
> and hit the throwers.
> http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/NotAChristian.htm
> 
> What the Bible tells us about various persons are not quite true
> according to the real events of the past.
> Events, which Blavatsky said, that the Seeker after Truth might 
learn to 
> read in the
> Akashic light, (- that is - the non-physical recordings of past 
events and 
> other issues.).
> 
> Just some views.
> 
> 
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Vincent" <vblaz2004@...>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:15 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: Hi there, I'm Vince and I am new to the 
group
> 
> 
> > Steve-
> >
> > Who specifically are the 'masters' and are they ethical?
> > The 'masters' that I've found in written texts mostly go back to 
the
> > Bible.  I'm speaking of miracle workers such as Jesus, Moses and
> > Elijah, Peter and Paul.  Some of these are reported as having 
raised
> > the dead or ascending itno heaven themselves.  Metaphysical 
masters.
> >
> > But were these masters completely ethical?  The miracles of Moses
> > were mostly of a destructive nature, bringing ten plagues on the
> > Egyptians, and perhaps ten more on his own Israelites.  Further, 
he
> > and his immediate succussor Joshua were propagators of genocide,
> > exterminating six nationalities from the face of the earth.  And 
the
> > very angels of heaven which backed him, according to biblical
> > testimony, were also quite violent and genocidal.
> >
> > Likewise Elijah, who reportedly ascended directly into heaven,
> > bypassing physical death, also slew people with supernatural fire
> > from the sky.  Despite resurrecting a dead boy, according to the
> > scriptures.
> >
> > Peter and Paul of the New Testament are also biblically recorded 
as
> > each having resurrected the dead, and yet enforced harsh cultural
> > legalisms on women in their day.
> >
> > What precisely is a 'master' and are 'masters' ethical?
> >
> > -
> >
> > It may even be asserted that the gods of ancient mythology may
> > actually have been immortal beings that once walked the earth 
prior
> > to recorded history as we have it today.  But did these
> > ancient 'gods' also practice good ethics?  Or were some of them
> > bloody and violent as well?
> >
> > -
> >
> > Now I suppose that there are different types of mastery available
> > within the human potential, each with their own jurisdictional
> > spheres.  One is a master of accounting, another a master at 
sales,
> > another a master of corporate management, another a master of
> > artistry, literature or dance.  Still others are masters of 
ethics
> > but not wisdom, psychic mastery but not physical athleticism.
> > Whatever it may be.
> >
> > So again I ask: what precisely is a 'master'?  And a master of 
what?
> >
> > Vince
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey <sallev1@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Vince
> >>        When you mention "wholistic" regarding the fact the TS
> > includes other works besides HPBs, you raise an interesting 
point.
> >>       I was originally involved with the TS years ago, and I 
felt
> > as if I had found a mother-lode of metaphysical occult 
literature.
> > and this is true. Over the years, however, I found my own tastes
> > changing from an open texture rather undisciplined sense of 
study to
> > a "way" of my own, and I began to eliminate texts which, to me,
> > where too indirect regarding the Path of individual work. I 
wanted
> > to know what I needed to actually do to know Wisdom, which wisdom
> > was really neccesary for my own "awakening", and most 
importantly-
> > what are the Masters of Wisdom. I found that some texts were
> > concerned with the fundemental teachings of the ancient wisdom,
> > without concern for the author, just the learning of the 
student. I
> > found that many were not and made claims of visions and 
knowledge,
> > which seemed to me, to jump ahead of what I could verify as real.
> > So, I kept finding myself going back to the fundemental teachings
> > regarding the neccesary changes I had to make in me, with which I
> > would know
> >>  what is real and what is not. My biggest problem was always me
> > and my  lack of patience. I needed to rid myself of the so-called
> > normal time sense of people in our time, which prompts us to 
quickly
> > and prematurely aquire powers before we understand what power 
is. I
> > kept finding that some few texts want the student to find out 
what a
> > human being is, the knowledge of which I thought I had, being
> > preumptious and shallow. Which really means, that for a shallow
> > nature to aquire power would be dangerous.
> >>        Therefore, I kept finding myself being attracted back to
> > HPB's writings, along with Patanjali, the Dalai Lama, and other
> > insightful Buddhist thinkers like Santideva, who deal in ethical
> > growth along side, but actually preceding, the metaphysical 
study,
> > for the sake of psychological balance. Their motive is service as
> > the key to finding out who you are and your capacities, while an
> > unbalanced study may still allow for selfishness, and misuse of
> > knowledge.
> >>        Well, thats the Path of study for me, but it came about
> > through an open study of pretty much everything.
> >>
> >>   Steve
> >>
> >> Vincent <vblaz2004@> wrote:
> >>   Steve-
> >>
> >> Actually, my primary intent for recently getting involved with 
the
> >> Theosophical Society of Wheaton has mostly to do with having a
> > place
> >> wherein I may freely believe what I already do, and learn new
> > things
> >> of a metaphysical content as well.
> >>
> >> When I was formerly involved with Christian fundamentalist
> > churches,
> >> I found myself judged and restricted whenever attempting to 
bring
> > up
> >> metaphysical concepts in open discussion format. I was told 
that I
> >> was not being 'doctrinal', and that my metaphysical experiences
> >> were 'demonic', insofar as they were not strictly aligned with
> >> Christian doctrine.
> >>
> >> However, my initial impression of the Theosophical Society is 
that
> >> it is accepting of a variety of religious traditions, and not
> > solely
> >> specific to HPB's writings. It is more wholistic. Please correct
> >> me if I am wrong on this.
> >>
> >> Vince
> >>
> >> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Ah Vince, that's a mighty deep rational you have for what you
> > do.
> >> Hopefully you will get from us exactly what you aught.
> >> >
> >> > Steve
> >> >
> >> > Vincent wrote:
> >> > Steve-
> >> >
> >> > I appreciate your insight and your suggestion, and I see the
> > value
> >> > to it. It's just that at this specific time in my life, my 
focus
> >> > must be a little bit different. In other words, I've already
> >> poured
> >> > many thousands of hours into various metaphysical texts over 
the
> >> > last twenty years, and have therefore arrived at a very 
complex
> >> and
> >> > advanced metaphysical belief system as a result. At this 
time, I
> >> am
> >> > undertaking the attempt to write a volume as large as HPB's, 
and
> >> > therefore cannot dedicate fully researching a brand new text.
> >> >
> >> > I suggest that there exist the roles of teachers whose 
specific
> >> task
> >> > is to dispense information to others, if they do not have the
> >> > immediate time and energy to gather it for themselves. I'm not
> >> > saying that direct readings of HPB lack value in any way. 
That's
> >> > just not where I'm at right now.
> >> >
> >> > Currently, I engage in trance conditioning through natural
> >> > physiological disciplines, without the use of chemical
> > modifiers.
> >> > This means that I interact directly with spirit entities, 
seeing
> >> > them and hearing them when I enter into trance. And this is 
the
> >> > level from whence my writings will manifest inspiration. I am
> > just
> >> > curious to see what degree of alignment exists between HPB's
> >> > writings and my own belief system at this time, so I'd like to
> >> learn
> >> > more through those gifted teachers and students of HPB.
> >> >
> >> > Vince
> >> >
> >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Vince
> >> > >
> >> > > I am aware of how daunting the very thickness of these
> >> > texts can appear, but I really think that you are doing 
yourself
> > a
> >> > great disservice, by not doing the study yourself, and 
expecting
> >> > others to, sort of, hand it to you in some palatable form
> > intended
> >> > just for you. This is a great deal like going to church or
> > temple
> >> > and expecting the paid servent on the pulpit to do the same
> > thing.
> >> > > Now please, don't take this wrong, but an important aspect
> >> > of the philosophy of becoming a discriminating human being and
> >> > student, is, so that what you find for yourself will be
> > something
> >> > you can trust in. "We are all Gods", says the ancient wisdom,
> >> > or "You too can do what I have done" as Jesus says. In other
> >> words,
> >> > we have what we need within us, we just have to flesh it out.
> > That
> >> > is the purpose of theosophical thought, not the memorization 
of
> >> > thick texts. But the study of them, and application of what we
> > see
> >> > as true, brings rewards immediately, as the mind wakes up to 
its
> >> own
> >> > powers of wisdom and discrimination.
> >> > >
> >> > > Steve
> >> > >
> >> > > Vincent wrote:
> >> > > Steve-
> >> > >
> >> > > I'm just trying to understand what I can about Theosophy,
> >> insofar
> >> > as
> >> > > it is new to me. HPB's writings are so extensive in such 
large
> >> > > volumes that I'm honestly a little bit daunted as to where 
to
> >> > begin,
> >> > > so I'm likely going to be relying on secondary abridgments 
for
> >> > > awhile. In other words, someone's probably going to have to
> >> teach
> >> > > it to me in the form of abridged quotes, before I get into
> >> > extensive
> >> > > reading of the core volumes.
> >> > >
> >> > > Christians claim that the Bible contains 'absolute truth',
> > both
> >> > > inerrant and infallible. But this then leaves those portions
> > of
> >> > > universal truth concerning which we lack a firm and total
> > grasp.
> >> > > Namely 'occult' truth, or anything which has not been 
declared
> >> to
> >> > > be 'absolute truth' by the Christian community. Hence
> > universal
> >> > > truth may potentially be subdivided into categories
> > of 'absolute
> >> > > truth' and 'occult truth'. Of course, I don't believe that 
any
> >> of
> >> > > us really has a firm grasp on 'absolute truth' in the first
> >> place,
> >> > > insofar as our minds are mortal, and we commonly have errors
> >> > > somewhere in every belief that we hold, whether small or
> > great.
> >> > > Hence so many different biblical interpretations among
> >> Christians.
> >> > >
> >> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Vince-
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Your intution about the reason for the term "Secret" in 
The
> >> > > Secret Doctrine is somewhat correct, but, it is also a bit 
to
> >> > quick
> >> > > a judgement. I'm afraid you are going to have to study the
> >> thing,
> >> > to
> >> > > get a really good idea about the use of her terms. However, 
in
> >> > doing
> >> > > so, I found it wise to read HPB in a thorough way to begin 
to
> >> > > undestand her motivation. By this I mean, read The Key to
> >> > Theosophy,
> >> > > and study The Voice of the Silence, as well, or something 
like
> >> > that.
> >> > > Or, pick up one of her collected writtings of shorter
> > articles,
> >> or
> >> > > the Panarion. Mostly all of these are available at the 
Public
> >> > > Library, but definately on-line or in Theosophy Lodges of
> >> > different
> >> > > types.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Good Searching-Steve
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Vincent Blazina wrote:
> >> > > > Perry:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks for the welcome. The Jehovah's Witnesses that you
> > refer
> >> > > also seem to have some narrow biblical interpretations, much
> >> like
> >> > > Christian fundamentalists. I'm curious about what some of 
the
> >> > > similarities and differences are between the Bible and the
> >> Secret
> >> > > Doctrine. Why is the Secret Doctrine considered to be 
secret?
> >> Does
> >> > > this simply mean that it is occult (meaning hidden) in 
nature?
> >> My
> >> > > own biblical interpretations go very deep for me, and are
> >> anything
> >> > > but dry, although I view Christian fundamentalists as often
> >> > shallow
> >> > > in their own biblical interpretations much of the time.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Vince
> >> > > >
> >> > > > plcoles1
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > Hello Vince,
> >> > > > Welcome to theos-talk!
> >> > > > My background was in the Jehovah's Witnesses and so as a
> >> result
> >> > > had what amounted to at
> >> > > > least 5 1/2 hours a week of meetings to attend, and NO
> >> > questioning
> >> > > what you were being
> >> > > > told.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The thing I've found with studying theosophy for someone 
who
> >> has
> >> > > studied the Bible is
> >> > > > that theosophy and in particular the Secret Doctrine opens
> > up
> >> > many
> >> > > interesting and
> >> > > > profound interpretations of passages in the Bible.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > An interesting article written by H.P Blavatsky is `The
> >> Esoteric
> >> > > character of the Gospels'
> >> > > > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-sio/sio-eso2.htm
> >> > > > It's a good place to start as the Secret Doctrine can be a
> >> > little
> >> > > bit daunting to begin with.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > After only hearing what was to me very empty and dry
> >> > > interpretations of the Bible,
> >> > > > theosophy can help you to begin to get some kind of
> >> > understanding
> >> > > as to the deeper
> >> > > > meaning in the bible as well as what other great thinkers,
> >> sages
> >> > > and philosophers from
> >> > > > various traditions have taught on these subjects which may
> >> help
> >> > > you have some context
> >> > > > and reference point for your own experiences.
> >> > > > Very Best Wishes on your Spiritual journey and once again
> >> > Welcome
> >> > > to the theos-talk!
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Regards
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Perry
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "vblaz20042004" wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Hi there, I'm Vince and I am new to the group. I have
> >> recently
> >> > > been
> >> > > > > attending the Theosophical Society of Wheaton, Illinois
> > for
> >> > the
> >> > > past
> >> > > > > month, and have been enjoying the various teachings and
> >> > > discussions
> >> > > > > at that facility.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > My life has been rich with metaphysical experiences, but
> > the
> >> > > > > Christian Fundamentalist churches that I had previously
> >> > attended
> >> > > for
> >> > > > > twenty years got very judgmental towards me when I might
> >> > venture
> >> > > to
> >> > > > > reference them. I also began finding many 
inconsistencies
> >> with
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > way that many Christians were representing the Bible, 
and
> > my
> >> > > > > questions about Christianity were often deemed dangerous
> > to
> >> > > people's
> >> > > > > religious faith.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I am looking for a place in the Theosophical Society
> > wherein
> >> I
> >> > > may
> >> > > > > potentially freely discuss metaphysical issues as they
> >> > directly
> >> > > > > pertain to my life, with people who are more open to 
such
> >> > > > > discussions. I am very well read with the Bible, 
although
> > my
> >> > > > > interpretations of it are more metaphysical versus
> > orthodox.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I look forward to constuctive discussion with the people
> >> here,
> >> > > and
> >> > > > > would like to learn more about the Theosophical Society
> > and
> >> > it's
> >> > > > > perspectives, insofar as many of them are brand new to 
me.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Thank you,
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Vince
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> >> > > >
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> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> >> > > >
> >> > > >
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