Re: Theos-World TS natal chart and its implications
Feb 28, 2006 04:18 PM
by Jerry Hejka-Ekins
Dear Fairmaiden, Friends,
I finally got around to setting up that 1905 chart for the TS
incorporation. I've never seen it before. I think you are quite right
that the incorporation chart is very important. In a sense, Olcott and
Besant, at that time re-established the TS on a legal bases--that is,
created a new entity. In effect, they created a new TS--giving it a new
birth date. The new chart does not negate the others, but represents a
new direction for the TS.
Since the time is unknown, I setup a noon chart for the day in question.
Therefore, I can only make some general comments.
The first thing I noticed is that the TS was incorporated about a day
before the new moon. That is, the moon is waning and has almost
completed that cycle. In traditional astrology, waning moons are not
good times to start new things. The moon, however is not void of course,
as it will form a semi-sextile to Saturn and a trine to Mars over the
next ten or so hours before entering the next sign. So, even though the
moon's position is unfavorable, failure of the effort is not indicated.
The next thing I noticed is the planets are arrayed in a 240 degree
pattern. Marc Edmund Jones calls this pattern a "locomotive." Mars
serves as the "engine" and Neptune is the "caboose", while the Moon
falls closest to the center of the pattern. This would suggest a
productive organization under a central control (Moon). However, the
pattern can also be read as a "bowl" with Uranus and Neptune forming the
rim, and Mars as a singleton planet, and the sun very near the center of
the pattern, representing the central control. In either reading, Mars
is of key importance. My inclination is to favor the bowl pattern over
the locomotive, though, the chart has both characteristics. The reason
why I favor the bowl pattern is because the rim opposition is close and
the sun is in orb of aspect to both planets. The lead and trailing
planets in the locomotive are also close, but the moon is not as
strongly aspected in that pattern.
As a bowl pattern, I would characterize this new Theosophical Society as
self-contained and self oriented. The Uranus cutting planet suggests its
path of action as unconventional, but not necessarily in a progressive
or constructive sense. Sun in Aries, representing the central control
would characterize that leadership as acting from a predetermined agenda
which is not responsive to the changing environment.
The all important singleton planet, Mars, represents the TS's outreach
into the world outside of itself. Unfortunately, Mars in forming a
square aspect to Saturn, creates considerable discordant actions and
reactionary responses, such as an "us versus them" attitude--"those who
'know' and those who don't." On the positive side, Mars and Saturn are
in their own ruling signs, which helps to mitigate the worst of this
very difficult aspect. Still, it is hardly the desirable aspect for an
organization which aims to lead the public into any kind of harmonious
fellowship of humanity.
I'm looking forward to reading your observations.
Best Wishes,
Jerry
fairemaidenofchatshire wrote:
Dear Jerry,
Thank you for responding to my two-cents worth, *s*
I also appreciate your giving the 1905 India date as the date of
actual 'incorporation' of the Society... Now THAT would be the chart
to erect if someone wanted to check out just how The Theosophical
Society would be received, and fare, in the world's eyes...
the 'exoteric' chart par excellance, *s*
Do you have an actual 'day/time/place' for such incorporation in
India???
Thanks, FaireMaiden
*******************************************************
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@...>
wrote:
Dear Fairemaiden,
As with all things astrological, timing is imperative... In this
particular case, September 13, 1875, 46 Irving Place, New York
City,
would be the appropriate date & place of formation of said
Society,
as that is the date the group was FORMALLY NAMED... {"It was
resolved that the name of the society be "THE THEOSOPHICAL
SOCIETY"}.
Astrology, as with any of the other occult arts operates upon
rules of
analogy and correspondence. As when a child becomes an individual--
when
it is separated from its mother, so does an entity come into being
when
it is objectified by consensus of those present who "parented" the
idea.
Yes, there are many events concerned with bringing an entity into
the
objective world, and a horoscope of each event may reflect
something
about it. I recall my wife and I naming our child several months
before
she was born. A horoscope for that moment would only have
reflected the
circumstances for that moment--an expectation of an as yet unborn
child.
In other words, any of these dates can tell an astrologer
something
about the entity in question. However, whatever we bring into this
world
through an act of will, followed by action, begins with an idea.
The other dates of Sept 7th & 8th show the 'IDEA' of a group of
people 'taking form' to 'make a Society' but, until such is
NAMED,
it remains in the realm of an IDEA... Unless, of course, I am
reading the above quotation incorrectly...
I think you are reading it correctly. HPB cited the sept date as
the
"esoteric" birth of the TS. That indeed would occur in the world
of ideas.
I must admit to being somewheat confused by the 'November 17,
1875'
date as the Society being made PUBLIC... ["Mott Memorial Hall, 64
Madison Ave., New York City"]... What was it, specifically, that
made the Theosophical Society on that date a 'public' one??? Were
they incorporated, or somehow registered by a County Recorder, in
some way, thru the court???
It was the occasion of the Inaugural address--when the
organization and
its aims were publicly announced and outlined.
Were
they incorporated, or somehow registered by a County Recorder, in
some way, thru the court???
Yes, the TS was incorporated in India in 1905--thirty years after
its
founding. That would be yet another interesting chart.
Best wishes,
Jerry
fairemaidenofchatshire wrote:
To Whom It May Concern:
"SEPT 13TH 1875
3. Pursuant to adjournment, a meeting was held Sept. 13, 1875.
H.S.Olcott acted as Chairman and C. Southern as Secretary. The
Committee on "Preamble and By-laws" reported progress. It was
resolved that the name of the society be "THE THEOSOPHICAL
SOCIETY".
The Chair appointed a committee to select meeting rooms. "Several
new members were nominated and uponmotion those persons were
added
to the list of Founders." The meeting adjourned subject to the
call
of the Chair."
As with all things astrological, timing is imperative... In this
particular case, September 13, 1875, 46 Irving Place, New York
City,
would be the appropriate date & place of formation of said
Society,
as that is the date the group was FORMALLY NAMED... {"It was
resolved that the name of the society be "THE THEOSOPHICAL
SOCIETY"}.
The other dates of Sept 7th & 8th show the 'IDEA' of a group of
people 'taking form' to 'make a Society' but, until such is
NAMED,
it remains in the realm of an IDEA... Unless, of course, I am
reading the above quotation incorrectly...
I must admit to being somewheat confused by the 'November 17,
1875'
date as the Society being made PUBLIC... ["Mott Memorial Hall, 64
Madison Ave., New York City"]... What was it, specifically, that
made the Theosophical Society on that date a 'public' one??? Were
they incorporated, or somehow registered by a County Recorder, in
some way, thru the court???
In any case, one could erect a chart to see specifically just how
the Society would fare in the 'world's eyes' IF, indeed, they
were
made 'formally' public somehow on November 17th... One would view
such a chart as an 'exoteric' expression, so-to-speak... The
September 13th date would be, then, the 'esoteric' expression of
the
Society... As such, each chart could be looked upon within a
framework of 'inner' and 'outer' energetic dynamics.
As to the September 13th 'time'... It has been stated as 8 p.m...
However, I would place the time at closer to 8:15-8:30 as most
meetings START at 8 p.m., with the actual 'business' of the
meeting
taking some minutes to get underway and relevant issues brought
to
the floor, discussed, and subsequently codified... or not, as the
case may be...
As for the November 17th 'time', I see nothing noted below that
would be considered revelatory... If a piece of paper with a NAME
is
being County Recorded, {for any reason, i.e. Articles of
Incorporation or a Name Change, for example}, the time would then
be
the date/time you took it to the Recorder's office and handed it
over, or the date/time when you dropped it in the postbox or
handed
it to a mail carrier... In other words, the moment it left your
hands, {NOT the date/time the Judge signed it, nor the date/time
the
Recorder actually recorded it}...
Because of this, I fear that not knowing just 'how' the Society
went 'public', {as spoken of below}, it is then impossible to
give
a 'best guess' time, let alone a time with any assurance a'tall…
If, however, by 'public' one is referring to just giving a
speech,
the date is irrelevant as far as astrology for the Socitey is
concerned... It might be interesting to look at from the aspect
of
how Olcott would have been received, etc., but it wouldn't matter
at
all for the Society itself…
FaireMaiden
***************************************************
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anton Rozman" <anton_rozman@>
wrote:
Maybe this passage from The Inner Group Teachings of H. P.
Blavatsky - Meeting: November 12, 1890 - is interesting too:
H.P.B. said that the Inner Group was the Manas of the T.S. The
E.S.
was the Lower Manas; the T.S. the Quarternary.
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anton Rozman"
<anton_rozman@>
wrote:
Maybe this extracts from J. Ransom's Short History of the T. S.
will
complete Dallas' information.
Warmest regards,
Anton
AT the time of the formation of The Theosophical Society, H. P.
B.
was living at 46, Irving Place, New York. Here she was eagerly
sought out by those interested in the occult and attracted by
her
remarkable personality, in the courageous challenge she flung
at
scientific materialism, and in the stand she made for
the "science
of ancient and proved Magic." (H.P.B. used the word Magic as a
substitute for both Occultism and Theosophy, neither of which
meant
anything to the public at that time.) On 7 Sept., 1875, Mr.
George
H. Felt, an engineer and architect, gave a highly instructive
lecture on "The Lost Canon of Proportion of the Egyptians," to
about
seventeen people gathered in H.P.B.'s rooms. …
An animated discussion followed, during which the idea occurred
to
Col. Olcott "that it would be a good thing to form a Society to
pursue and promote such occult research." He passed a note to
H.P.,
who agreed. (Mrs. Besant remarks in Lucifer, April 1895, p.
105: "She [H.P.B.] has told me herself how her Master bade her
found
it, and how at His bidding she wrote the suggestion of starting
it
on a slip of paper and gave it to W. Q. Judge to pass to Col.
Olcott, and then the Society had its first beginning …") He
then
spoke of the philosophic character of ancient Theosophies and
their
sufficiency to reconcile all existing antagonism, and of Mr.
Felt's
achievement in extracting the Key to the architecture of Nature
from
the scanty fragments of ancient lore. He proposed to form a
society
for the investigation of science and religion; the society to
be
entirely eclectic, the friend of true religion and the enemy of
scientific materialism. It would be a nucleus around which
might
gather those willing to work together to organise a society of
occultists, begin to collect a library, and to diffuse
information
concerning those secret laws of nature which were so familiar
to
the
Chaldeans and Egyptians, but were unknown to the modern world
of
science. Mr. Felt was to teach the right kind of person how to
evoke
and control the elementals. It was unanimously agreed that a
society
be formed for the study and elucidation of Occultism, the
Kabala,
etc. It should be free from the least sectarian character and
be
unquestionably anti-materialistic. Mr. W. Q. Judge proposed
Col.
Olcott as chairman, and the Colonel proposed Mr. Judge as
Secretary.
On 8 Sept., at the adjourned meeting, Col. Olcott was elected
as
Chairman and Mr. Judge as Secretary. From among those present
the
following sixteen handed in their names as willing to form and
belong to such a Society: Mde. H. P. Blavatsky, Col. H. S.
Olcott,
Charles Sotheran, Dr. Charles E. Simmons, H. D. Monachesi, C.
C.
Massey (Loud.), W. L. Alden, G. H. Felt, D. E. de Lara, Dr. W.
Britten, Henry J. Newton, John Storer Cobb, J. Hyslop, W. Q.
Judge,
Mrs. E. H. Britten H. M. Stevens. …
Newton, Stevens and Sotheran, with the Chairman, were appointed
to
draft a Constitution and Bye-laws, and to report on them on 13
Sept.
At this meeting Felt further described his discoveries. Then
business was taken up, with Col. Olcott in the Chair and
Sotheran
as
Secretary. The Committee on Preamble and Bye-laws made its
report.
It was resolved that the name of the proposed Society be THE
THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY. It was agreed that this title "both
expressed
the esoteric truth they wished to reach and covered the ground
of
Felt's methods of occult research." The Rev. Mr. Wiggin and Mr.
Sotheran were appointed to select suitable meeting rooms,
several
new members were nominated and their names added as founders. …
The first meeting under the name "The Theosophical Society" was
called by Henry S. Olcott, President pro tem., for 16 Oct. in
the
spacious drawing-rooms of Mrs. Emma Hardinge Britten, the
widely
known Spiritualist. It was announced that the Bye-laws were
ready,
and that Mr. Felt, if in town, would continue his Egyptological
lectures, also that the officers would be elected. Col. Olcott
was
in the Chair and J. S. Cobb acted as Secretary. After
discussion
and
various alterations, the Bye-laws were adopted.
After this meeting H. P. B. left for Ithaca to stay with her
friends
Prof. and Mrs. Corson. …
During H. P. B.'s absence at Ithaca, Col. Olcott was delivering
lectures in New York, launching out against Spiritualism and
upholding the new Theosophical doctrine. H. P. B. returned to
New
York in time for the next meeting of The Theosophical Society,
which
was held at the same place on 30 Oct. At this meeting the Mott
Memorial Hall, 64, Madison Avenue, was selected as The
Society's
meeting place. It was near to the recently purchased New York
Headquarters in 47th Street, into which H. P. B. and the
Colonel
presently moved, and remained there until they left for India.
The
Bye-laws were finally adopted, and the Preamble was to be
further
revised by H. S. Olcott, C. Sotheran and J. S. Cobb. In this
finished Preamble it is said:
"The Title of the Theosophical Society explains the objects and
desires of its founders: they `seek to obtain knowledge of the
nature and attributes of the Supreme Power, and of the higher
spirits by the aid of physical processes.' In other words, they
hope, that by going deeper than modern science has hitherto
done,
into the esoteric philosophies of ancient times, they may be
enabled
to obtain, for themselves and other investigators, proof of the
existence of an `Unseen Universe,' the nature of its
inhabitants
if
such there be, and the laws which govern them and their
relations
with mankind. Whatever may be the private opinions of its
members,
the society has no dogmas to enforce, no creed to disseminate.
It
is
formed neither as a Spiritualistic schism, nor to serve as the
foe
or friend of any sectarian or philosophic body. Its only axiom
is
the omnipotence of truth, its only creed a profession of
unqualified
devotion to its discovery and propaganda. In considering the
qualifications of applicants for membership, it knows neither
race,
sex, colour, country nor creed …"
The Preamble ended with these words:
"The Theosophical Society, disclaiming all pretension to the
possession of unusual advantages, all selfish motives, all
disposition to foster deception of any sort, all intention to
wilfully and causelessly injure any established organization,
invites fraternal co-operation of such as can realize the
importance
of its field of labour; and are in sympathy with the objects
for
which it has been organized."
The "Objects" of The Society were very simply stated as
being "to
collect and diffuse a knowledge of the laws which govern the
universe."
To these ideals of freedom of thought and opinion The Society
clung
tenaciously, as will be seen. Col. Olcott was ever mindful of
this
promise to the world, guarded it jealously and made it his
guiding
principle in his organisation of The Society, and each
President
has
in turn guarded it with equal care from all tendencies to
limitation
or dogmatism. Also, the principle of Brotherhood, implicitly
expressed at the end of the first paragraph, soon became the
strongest and most vitalising power and remains the dominating
Object of The Society's work.
The election for Office resulted as follows:
President, HENRY S. OLCOTT; Vice-Presidents, Dr. S. PANCOAST
and
G.
H. FELT; Corresponding Secretary, MME. H. P. BLAVATSKY;
Recording
Secretary, JOHN STORER COBB; Treasurer, HENRY J. NEWTON,
Librarian,
CHARLES SOTHERAN; Councillors, REV. J. H. WIGGIN, (Judge) R. B.
WESTBROOK, L.L.D., Mrs. EMMA HARDINGE BRITTEN, C. E. SIMMONS,
M.
D.,
and HERBERT D. MONACHESI; Counsel to the Society, WILLIAM Q.
JUDGE.
On 17 November The Society met at Mott Memorial Hall, and the
President delivered his Inaugural Address. This completed the
organisation of The Society and Col. Olcott chose this date as
its
birthday.
The Preamble, Rules, (under date of 30 Oct. 1875) and Inaugural
Address were published. In this Address the Colonel said
prophetically: "in the coming time it is inevitable that the
birth
of this society of ours must be considered a factor in the
problem
which the historian will be required to solve." Since the days
when
the Neo-Platonists and theurgists of Alexandria were scattered
by
Christianity this was the first revival of a study of
Theosophy.
He
then promised that through his discoveries Mr. Felt would, by
simple
chemical appliances, exhibit "the races of beings which,
invisible
to our eyes, people the elements," and the name of The
Theosophical
Society would hold its place in history as the first to exhibit
these "Elementary Spirits" - and thus astound the churches, the
unimaginative academies of science, the materialists and
the "shade"
ridden spiritualists. Written in the SCRAPBOOK is one of
H.P.B.'s
shrewd comments to the effect that these were rash statements -
it
was "counting the price of the bear's skin before the beast is
slain." The Colonel admitted afterwards that though there was
much
in his Address that came true, "yet it reads a bit foolish
after
seventeen years of hard experience."
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "W.Dallas TenBroeck"
<dalval14@> wrote:
T S STARTED .DOC
=================
CHRONOLOGY 1875 -78
NOTES ON THE ORIGINAL MINUTES OF THE
THEOSOPHICAL
SOCIETY.
SOURCES:
PATH, Vol. 10, p. 55, May 1894.
THEOSOPHICAL FORUM, Vol. 1, p. 95-6--
(Olcott on)
OLD DIARY LEAVES, Vol. 1,p.114-18,121-
2,126-133;137,
OLD DIARY LEAVES, Vol. 7, p.
326.
[ Start with Mr. Judge's THE T S AND ITS BASIS, J
Art
II 156 ]
From AUSTRAL THEOSOPHIST, June 1894 ]
"As one of those who helped to form the T S, I may
claim
to speak
with personal knowledge of the facts, ...
SEPT 7th 1875
"1. At a meeting held in the rooms of H.P.Blavatsky, 46
Irving
Place, New
York City, Sept. 7, 1875, it was agreed to form a Society for
the
purpose of
Occult Study. Upon motion of William Q. Judge, Henry S.
Olcott
was elected
Chairman of this meeting, and upon motion of H.S.Olcott,
William
Q. Judge
was elected Secretary of the same. Adjourned to September 8,
1875...this is
ascertained as the facts by those who were present.
(CWB, Vol.
1, 122)
NOTE:
Col. Olcott, in OLD DIARY LEAVES, Vol. 1, p.
118,
remarks on
this event from memory as follows: (he) "wrote on a scrap of
paper: "Would
it not be a good thing to form a Society for this kind of
study ?"-
-and gave
it to Judge. H.P.B. read the note and nodded assent."
[He also makes mention of this on p.114 of his book. OLD DIARY
LEAVES
(Olcott) Vol. I
(CWB, Vol. 1, p. 473, 122-123)
Since Col. Olcott wrote OLD DIARY LEAVES,
largely
from memory,
some discrepancies have been observed by historians, these
will
be
found
chronicled in CWB Vol. I, pp. 72-3, 94, 121, 123-4.
H.P.B. later narrated this event to Mrs. A. Besant, who
then
reported
it in the opposite sequence: she [HPB] having originated the
idea, and
then, having a note suggesting the formation of a society
passed
through
Judge to Olcott.
(see LUCIFER, Vol. 12, p. 105, April 1893).
There is no question but Mr. Judge was one of the three
founders
of the
Theosophical Society who remained with it.
SEPT 8th 1875
2. Pursuant to adjournment, a meeting was held at the same
place
Sept. 8,
1875. It is with this meeting that the minute book begins.
Upon
motion of
William Q. Judge it was voted that H.S.Olcott take the Chair,
and
upon
motion it was voted that William Q. Judge act as Secretary.
Upon
request of
the Chair, sixteen persons handed their names to the
Secretary,
as agreeing
to found and belong to such a society. A committee of four,
including the
Chairman, was appointed "to draft a constitution and by-laws
and
to report
the same at the next meeting." Adjourned to Monday, Sept. 13,
1875, at the
same place.
(PATH Vol. 9, p. 1 - facsimile; CWB, Vol. 1, p. 123-5)
SEPT 13TH 1875
3. Pursuant to adjournment, a meeting was held
Sept.
13, 1875.
H.S.Olcott acted as Chairman and C. Southern as Secretary.
The
Committee on
"Preamble and By-laws" reported progress. It was resolved
that
the name of
the society be "THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY". The Chair
appointed
a
committee
to select meeting rooms. "Several new members were nominated
and
upon
motion those persons were added to the list of Founders." The
meeting
adjourned subject to the call of the Chair.
OCTOBER 16 1875
4. Pursuant to a Notice dated at New York, Oct. 13,
1875, signed
Henry S. Olcott, President pro tem., a meeting was held at 206
W
38th
St., Oct. 16, l875, "to organize and elect officers."
Eighteen
persons
were present. The report of the Committee on "Preamble and By-
laws" was
laid on the table and ordered printed. The meeting was
adjourned
to
October 30th l875, at the same place. H.S.Olcott was
Chairman,
and J. S.
Cobb, Secretary,
OCTOBER 30 1875
5. October 30, 1875, the Society met pursuant to
adjournment.
Mott Memorial Hall, 64 Madison Ave., New York City was
selected
as
the
Society's meeting place. By-laws were adopted, but with the
proviso that
the "Preamble" should be revised by a committee and then
published
as the
"Preamble of the Society." Officers were elected as
follows:
President,
Henry S. Olcott; Vice-Presidents, Dr. S. Pancoast and
G .H .Felt;
Corresponding Secretary, Mme. H.P.Blavatsky; Recording
Secretary, John
Storer Cobb; Treasurer, Henry J. Newton; Librarian, Charles
Southeran;
Councilors, Rev. J .H. Wiggin, R. B. Westbrook, LL.D., Mrs.
Emma Hardinge
Britten; C E. Simmons, M.D. and Herbert D. Montachesi;
Counsel
to the
Society, William Q. Judge. Adjourned to November 17,
1875. ....
PATH, VOL. 10, P. 55-60;
CWB, Vol. I, p. 122 - 125; 150; 193; 245-6;
375-
8; 379-84;
NOTE
Mme. Blavatsky was by this time (1875) engaged
in
the writing
of ISIS UNVEILED. Mr. Judge's brother, John, was of help in
preparing the
manuscript for the printers. Mr. Judge's participation is not
specified in
existent records I have read. DTB.
HPB invited Mr. Judge to help her in 1884 at
Enghien, (WQJ
ART. ULT I 468) : "...while I at her request carefully read
over,
sitting
in the same room, Isis Unveiled, making indices at the foot of
the
page, as
she intended to use it in preparing the Secret Doctrine."
In THE COLLECTED WORKS OF H.P.BLAVATSKY,
VOL. I p.
406 we
are told by the editor that the diaries of HPB for the years
1875-
77
"mysteriously disappeared" in Adyar.
The diary for 1878 find Mr. Judge mentioned several times as a
visitor to
HPB in the latter part of the year: [ August 5th and 6th (p.
409); Oct 18
(p.413); Oct. 30 (p.416); Nov. 12 (p.420); Dec. 3-4
(p.425);
Dec. 5
(p.426); Dec. 7 (p.427); Dec. 11 (p.429); Dec. 13-15.
COLL. WKS. B, Vol I, p. 430.]
On December 17th. 1878 Mme. Blavatsky and Col. Olcott
boarded a
steamer to sail via. England, for India; Mr. Judge remained
in
New York.
On Dec. 19th. 1879 (p.433, C W B) Mr. Judge visited them on
board
the steamer prior to its actual departure, while it was still
anchored
inside the bar of the harbor waiting for the tide.
DECEMBER 17 1878 to FEBRUARY 16 1879
9. In the year 1878 H.P.Blavatsky and H.S.Olcott
were
appointed
under a formal Resolution of the Theosophical Society dated----
--
-
a
"Committee of the Theosophical Society" to visit foreign
countries
and
report." The Theosophist for Oct. 1879, Vol. 1, #1, p. 1, 1st
item, says:
"For the convenience of future reference, it may as well be
stated
here that
the Committee, sent to India by the Theosophical Society,
sailed
from New
York Dec. 17th l878, and landed in Bombay, Feb. 16, 1879,
having
passed two
weeks in London on the way." (The THEOSOPHIST, Jan.
1880, Vol. 1, p.95).
=================================================================
T S STARTED
From: Jerry Hejka-Ekins
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 3:53 PM
To
Subject: Re: TS natal chart and its implications
Dear all,
I recall HPB writing that the September chart is the real
birth
chart.
The November inaugural address chart would be the chart for
when
the TS
became a public organization.
Best
Jerry
==============================================
adelasie wrote:
Dear Vladimir,
The chart drawn for 8 pm, September 8, 1875, is certainly more
encouraging than the one for the same time, November 17 of the
same
year. One might wonder how an entity of the latter date would
survive
at all. Does anyone have any more specific data for the
founding
of
the TS? It seems likely that there would be an official chart
for
the
founding, considering what the organization is.
Adelasie
==================================================
On 18 Feb 2006 at 13:19, Vladimir wrote:
Saturday, February 18, 2006, 5:46:41 AM, adelasie wrote:
Does Cranston give a time for the September date?
No. Actually the date might be considered even Sep.7, because
then
...Madame Blavatsky's sprightly evening chatter and her
reported
magical feats continued to draw groups of intelligent
people
to
her
rooms. Among those thus attracted was Mr. George H. Felt, who
had
made
some careful studies in phases of Egyptology. He was asked to
lecture
on these subjects and on the 7th of September, 1875, a score
of
people
had gathered in H.P.B.'s parlors to hear his address
on "The
Lost
Canon of Proportion of the Egyptians."
Dr. Seth Pancoast, a most
erudite Kabbalist was present, and after the lecture he
led
the
discussion to the subject of the occult powers of the
ancient
magicians. Mr. Felt said he had proven those powers and had
with
them
evoked elemental creatures and "hundreds of shadowy
forms."
As
the
tense debate proceeded, acting on an impulse,
Col. Olcott wrote on a
scrap of paper, which he passed over to Madame Blavatsky
through
the
hands of Mr. W. Q. Judge, the following: "Would it not be a
good
thing
to form a Society for this kind of study?" She read it and
indicated
assent.
http://www.blavatskycardiff.care4free.net/The%20Theosophical%
20Society
%20gets%20off%20the%20Ground.htm
But the Meeting Minutes containing the proposal is dated
Sep.8,1975 –
a hand-written page is reproduced in the book.
Vladimir
=====================================
see Blavatsky: COLLECTED WORKS Vol. 1
==================================
-----Original Message-----
From: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:theos-
talk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of adelasie
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 6:47 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World TS natal chart and its implications
Hi Vladimir,
Does Cranston give a time for the September date?
Adelasie
On 17 Feb 2006 at 21:35, Vladimir wrote:
Friday, February 17, 2006, 5:16:17 PM, kpauljohnson wrote:
Here are a couple of post from a dozen years ago,
discussing
the
November 17th chart for the TS:
Sorry, didn't look at the chart, just want to make a
side
remark:
according to Cranston's book on HPB's life, the TS
was
actually
organized Sep.8,1875, whereas on Nov.17th Olcott gave his
inaugural
speech.
Would you please remake the chart for this date and
produce new
implications? :)
Best regards,
Vladimir
=================================================
LEGAL STATUS OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY
Key. p. 309-10
THE LEGAL STATUS OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY.
The following Official Report, on which was granted a Decree
of
In
to the
St. Louis Theosophical Society, is art important document, as
putting on
record the view taken of the Theosophical Society—after a
careful
examination of witnesses on oath—by an American Court of Law.
First—The petitioner is not a religious body, I report this
negative finding
for the reason that the word "Theosophical" contained in
petitioners' name
conveys a possible religious implication.
The statutory phrase "society formed for religious purposes"
applies, I
suppose, only to an organization formed in part for worship,
worship being
an individual act involving adoration and perhaps emotional
power,
both
being of necessity individual acts, or else to an organization
formed for a
propagation of a religious faith.
Merely to teach a religion as one may teach algebra, is not, I
think, a
religions work, as the word "religious" is used in the Statute
and
the
Constitution. A man may occupy a collegiate chair of Professor
of
Religions
and as such teach the tenets of many religions. These
different
religions
being variant and antagonistic, the Professor could not by any
possibility
worship under all. Nay, he might even be irreligious. Hence,
merely teaching
religions is not a religions work in the statutory sense.
It will be noted that in art. 2 of this society's
constitution,
the word
religion is used in the plural. To teach religions is
educational,
not
religious. "To promote the study of religions" is in part to
promote the
study of the history of man. I add the subordinate finding
that
the society
has no religious creed and practices no worship.
Second—The petitioner proposes to promote the study of
literature
and
sciences. These objects are expressly within the terms of the
Statute.
Third—Cognate with the last object is that of
investigating "unexplained
laws of nature and psychical powers latent in man." These two
phrases, taken
in their apparent meaning, are unobjectionable. But there is
reason to
believe that they form a meaning other than the apparent one.
The court will take notice of the commonly accepted meaning of
the
word
"Theosophy." Though I am ignorant of Theosophy, I think it is
supposed to
include among other things manifestations and phenomena,
physical
and
psychical, that are violative of the laws now known by
physicists
and
metaphysicians, and perhaps not explained or claimed to be
explained or
understood even by Theosophists themselves.
In this group may be included Spiritualism, mesmerism,
clairvoyance,
mind-healing, mind-reading, and the like. I took testimony on
this
question,
and found that while a belief in any one of these sorts of
manifestations
and phenomena is not required, while each member of the
society
is
at
liberty to hold his own opinion, yet such questions form
topics
of
inquiry
and discussion, and the members as a mass are probably
believers
individually in phenomena that are abnormal and in powers that
are
superhuman as far as science now knows.
It is undoubtedly the right of any citizen to hold whatever
opinions he
pleases on these subjects, and to endeavour at his pleasure to
investigate
the unexplained and to display the latent.
But the question here is: Shall the Court grant a franchise in
aid
of such
endeavour?
Voodooism is a word applied to the practices of guileful men
among
the
ignorant and superstitious who inflict impostures upon
guileless
men among
the ignorant and superstitious. No Court would grant a
franchise
in
furtherance of such practices.
The Court then will stop to inquire into the practices and
perhaps
the
reputableness of the enterprise which seeks judicial aid. I am
not
meaning
to make a comparison between voodooism and this group of
phenomena
which for
convenience (though I know not whether accurately) I will call
occultism. I
only take voodooism as a strong case to show the Court ought
to
inquire.
If we now inquire into occultism we shall find that it has
been
occasionally
used, as is reported, for the purposes of imposture. But this
goes
for
nothing against its essential character. Always and everywhere
bad
men will
make a bad use of anything for selfish ends.
The object of this society, whether attainable or not, is
undeniably
laudable, assuming that there are physical and psychical
phenomena
unexplained, and that Theosophy seeks to explain them.
Assuming
that there
are human powers yet latent, it seeks to discover them. It may
be
that
absurdities and impostures are in fact incident to the nascent
stage of its
development.
As to an understanding like that of occultism, which asserts
powers commonly
thought superhuman, and phenomena commonly thought
supernatural,
it seemed
to me that the Court, though not assuming to determine
judicially
the
question of their verity, would, before granting to occultism
a
franchise,
inquire whether at least it had gained the position of being
reputable or
whether its adherents were merely men of narrow intelligence,
mean
intellect, and omnivorous credulity.
I accordingly took testimony on that point, and find that a
number
of
gentlemen in different countries of Europe, and also in this
country,
eminent in science, are believers in occultism. Sir Edward
Bulwer
Lytton, a
writer of large and varied learning, and of solid intellect,
is
asserted to
have been an occultist, an assertion countenanced by at least
two
of his
books.
The late President Wayland, of Brown University, writing of
abnormal mental
operations as shown in clairvoyance, says: "The subject seems
to
me well
worthy of the most searching and candid examination. It is by
no
means
deserving of ridicule, but demands the attention of the most
philosophical
inquiry."
Sir William Hamilton, probably the most acute and, undeniably,
the
most
learned of English metaphysicians that ever lived, said at
least
thirty
years ago: "However astonishing, it is now proved beyond all
rational doubt
that in certain abnormal states of the nervous organism
perceptions are
possible through other than the ordinary channels of the
senses."
By such testimony Theosophy is at least placed on the footing
of
respectability. Whether by further labour it can make partial
truths
complete truths, whether it can eliminate extravagances and
purge
itself of
impurities, if there are any, are probably questions upon
which
the Court
will not feel called upon to pass.
I perceive no other feature of the petitioners' constitution
that
is
obnoxious to legal objection, and accordingly I have the
honour
to
report
that I show no cause why the prayer of the petitioners should
not
be
granted.
AUGUST W. ALEXANDER,
Amicus Curæ.
===============================================================
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