Theos-Talk Archives (August 2005 Message tt00000)

Hallo all,

My views are:

Thanks to Dallas and other replies.

Here is the continuation of the chapter by Idries Shah with a few
changes added by me.
The use of the word 'he' instead of 'she' at certain
places in the text, was done to make the text more readable.

The last sentence in the previous email were:
"This is the least useful but most attractive component."

And now we have:

CONNECTIONS BETWEEN THE ESOTERICAL AND THEOSOPHICAL TEACHINGS
(PART 2)


"
Q: How is it known to the participants of such a group as to how
accurate or meaningful their theosophical 'work' is?

A: There are no two ways about it. Either it is known to their
teacher, if one still exists, in which case he will remedy defects,
and they will not be perpetuated. Or it is totally repetitious, and
the effort has become an - administrative - one. This happen when
there has been no true succession of teaching, so that there is
nobody at the top sufficiently developed to be able to diagnose
the situation. In this case the group has become to a greater or
lesser degree a prisoner of the automatism of the formal world.

Q: Does a teacher appear in a (theosophical) group which already exists, or 
does he/she
not?

A: He may or he may not. He comes to fulfil a law. He may
revalidate the working bases of a derelict group.

Q: Why does he do this?

A: In response to an inexorable need.

Q: Does the group always recognose him?

A: Certain people in general do. It will depend upon the apparatus
of perception which they have. The onus on him is not
primarily to preach, but to make himself available to the perception
of the people.

Q: Does he need the support of such groups?

A: Both parties can benefit, because there is no such thing as
solitary work. EVEN a derelict (theosophical group) can be producing semi-
consciously a quantity of necessary force ('substance') which we
might say goes waste unless it is correctly used.

Q: How can we account for the dramatic rise of teachers who purport to
have been 'called' to bring, for instance, spirituality to mankind?

A: Do not generalise about this. One form is the result of
physical laws. A group of people (ie. perhaps socalled theosophists)
can engender necessary force
(substance) already mentioned.
(Added by Sufilight: This force could for instance be called 'promotion of 
the teaching').
They do not know what to do with it;
they may not even really know what it is. An individual, who has
another development analogous to their own, may contact this
force (distance has no relevance here) and make use
of it. Now we have the amusing and also tragic situation in
which (a) force is raised by a certain group, (b) it is perceived and
employed by someone else, (c) this temporarily reinforces,
through vampirism, the 'teacher' who becomes prominent, (d)
because of the similarity of this person with their own defective tradition
(also sometimes called pseudo-theosophical teaching), the victim group think 
that he is their
teacher, (e) they join him, not realising that he seems to be like them 
because
he is using their own nutrition!
(Note added by Sufilight:
I can think of at least one theosophical teacher following this 
pattern. - - -
Today this pattern is a nuisance and some Seekers do not realise this and 
they
even follow a repetitous pattern. Ie. a pattern which is not relating itself 
to the Time,
place, people involved and spiritual needs of the process)

What you call a movement is part of an organic, natural
development. It takes on a local colour because of the culture in
which it grows (ie. also "the global planetary culture", which in a sense is 
local).
It cannot be imported together with the local colouring. It may attain a 
certain
degree of necessary force in its location,
but its spread into other areas is conditional upon to
vital factors:

(1) That it takes root naturally and becomes naturalised in
the fresh culture.

(2) That there is a need for it in the new culture.

The latter condition is operative only when there is a teacher,
adequately comminsioned to provide a formulation in that
area.

*******
I might write more from the chapter later.



from
M. Sufilight


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" <dalval14@earthlink.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 2:22 PM
Subject: Theos-World RE: Greogory's biggest mistake in life


> Sunday, July 31, 2005
>
> Re: Corresponding terms in all religions and philosophies
>
>
> Dear Friend:
>
> In ISIS UNVEILED and the SECRET DOCTRINE HPB does this kind of comparison
> and equivalence all the time.
>
> Antique THEOSOPHY is the permanent and basic root of all religions and
> philosophies.
>
> To bring this home to modern research and thought HPB spent great time
> tracing the historical roots of most of the great religions and also shows
> how currently they still agree on basics.
>
> The Answers below are useful to us all.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dallas
>
> -----------------------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: M. Sufilight
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 6:45 AM
> To: Subject: Re: Gregory's biggest mistake in life
>
> My views are:
>
> I have followed the recent exchanges of emails on the below topic.
>
> The following might be helpful to understand why I think that
> almost all parties involved in exchanges of emails somehow has failed
> to understand the theosophical teachings.
>
>
> CONNECTIONS BETWEEN THE ESOTERICAL AND THEOSOPHICAL TEACHINGS
>
> Q: What is the connection, if any, between the various methaphysical
> and esoterical teachings?
>
> A: There are, in your terms, numerous connections.
>
> The important ones to note are:
>
> 1. The world is littered with the remnants of genuine theosophical
> activities, whose actions has become vitiated or repetitious. These 
> remnants
> sometimes call themselves genuine theosophical groups - even if they are
> not. Somnetimes the even use the same name as the original teaching group 
> or
> groups as if this will make their activities equally valid.
>
> 2. It is a natural law that teachings be renewed in conformity with the
> place, TIME, people involved and spiritual needs of the process. (And not
> the various individuals wants of the proces.)
>
>
> Q: What form does the renewal take?
>
> A: Simply this. A Teacher, dedicated to a certain kind of function,
> organizes and presents the teaching in a manner suitable to the conditions
> just cited.
>
>
> Q: Does this mean that traditional methaphysical and theosophical 
> teachings
> which we find find represented in various countries are not now of any 
> real
> function, because they represent survivals from a period when they 
> enshrined
> real "work" ?
>
> A: That is so.
>
>
> Q: But how much reality or function do such organisations now have?
>
> A: In your terms, these spiritual, psychological and other systems have
> Three main components:-
>
> 1. The component of reality, which is ultimate truth, which is more or 
> less
> locked in by the human formulator.
>
> 2. The component of decay, which is what has crept in at the point where 
> the
> effort ceased to act truly, perhaps on the death of the formulator.
>
> 3. The component of outside appearence, which becomes after a time,
> unwittingly, the main interest of the participants.
>
> This is the least useful but most attractive component.
>
>
> I might later write the following pages of the chapter.
>
> *******
>
> CUT
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links