Theos-Talk Archives (July 2005 Message tt00174)

July 24 2005

Dear Gerry:

Re MAGIC and MAGICIAN

May I break in ?

Can we not define “magic” as "Truth or Law in operation?" I mean Nature's
facts, laws, truths, life-support to all living beings.

A "magician" would be a Wise One who knew such Laws and Truths about Nature
and man, and the many interactive and cooperative laws (unknown, partially
know, and most still hidden to many) that sustain the life of individuals in
this vast interactive and cooperative diversity we call Nature, or, our
world and the Universe ?

As I see it, it is not being prejudiced against a word or an idea that is
restrictive , but rather, a lack of knowledge concerning the operating
forces and purposes of the ever changing, living motion, progress, and facts
of existence. If we can access such knowledge then we need fear nothing.
What is the best and safest way to do this? [And, Who are we who seek to do
this?]

Victor Hugo, writing somewhere, [I forget where] called metaphysics the
"microscope of thought." It sounds like a challenging definition, but does
not exclude attempts made by anyone at investigating and learning.

The 3rd Object of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY [Key, p. 39] states: "To
investigate the hidden mysteries of Nature under every aspect possible, and
the psychic and spiritual powers latent in man especially."

Investigation is not forbidden, but use of such knowledge, if partial and
employed for selfish gain, may be indeed very baneful. For this reason, I
understand the warning is made. [ Who, or What in us might get damaged or
hurt?]

In the "Key" [ p. 47 ] HPB defines the methods to be used by the members of
the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY .

Let me add: I have noticed that most who approach and seek to secure
"magical knowledge" and powers, do so because they believe that they can
secure a personal advantage. [Riches, ease, the ability to satiate personal
likes to the utmost ... And then: What happens? ]

If one desires to really succeed in the study of NATURE'S magic ways, then
the processes of impersonality and the universalizing of the selfish LOWER
SELF [Kama-Manas] have to be adopted. One has to secure an exact knowledge
of the nature of the human mind [Higher and Lower] and the desire nature, as
separate principles; and, second, a knowledge of NATURE'S objectives and
rules already in place, impersonally, inflexibly, for all to use and have.  

In other words, how would a man harmonize with Nature ? [I visualize a
selfish person acquiring real POWER and then pitting himself against NATURE
in an attempt to secure reversal of LAW for some personal reason. Sounds
pretty impossible to me. Suppose many could do that ? What results?]

Further: Who (or what) is it in us that perceives these issues, asks
questions, looks for means to achieve knowledge, and finally decides on the
fairness and legality (or not) of decisions to be made. Who and what is the
real ME ? 

Is not each human being a part of universal NATURE ? [I and my "Father" are
ONE. "Tatvam assi." "Thou art THAT."]

If the mind is a tool, and all the descriptions of meditative processes are
designed to refine and attune the mind, then, when that is achieved, what
use is to be made of this fine instrument? Who ultimately uses it? And,
Why, and "for how long ?"

Then, these powers, forces and tools are already innate in every human -- in
potential -- is the question, then, not one of removing existing impediments
that prevent their being used? What in us is the User, and what is that
which is used? [Man know thyself.] How did we accumulate those
"impediments?" Now, how do we get rid of them? 

If Nature is the aggregate of all its diverse parts, then, is not any part
of the individual aggregate (Monad) to raise its awareness and consciousness
to embrace the WHOLE OF NATURE ? How does it acquire the power to choose?
Is it selected, or does it elect itself?

Is the field and actuality of MAGIC not already present in its entirety in
Nature and the Universe? Are they not present in plan and potential from
the very beginning of manifestation? Are they KARMA ? (or an aspect of KARMA
and of CYCLES of time, and of SPACE (the immeasurable and boundless) ?

Finally may I ask:  

Suppose that a man does acquire (or rather unveils) secret knowledge from
NATURE, and expose that which he innately has in potential, [when was this
first established] how will he use it?  

How long can he prolong this present life so as to "enjoy" it? Who, or what
in us does the "enjoying?" 

And when finally, death of the physical body arrives, what happens to that
knowledge ? 

The real underlying question is one of motive. There is the selfish and the
Universal.  

Has this question anything to do with soul (mind) immortality? [The
immortality and eternity of the Monad ?] 

I ask further: Has VIRTUE any superiority over VICE ? Why are these two
always emphasized in the search for wisdom? Why do people respect the
memory of the WISE and the Teachers of VIRTUE? Why is it that evil
magicians" loose popular respect and are forgotten? 

What is the relation of wisdom with discrimination?

Are the "moral states" important ? Oriental psychology emphasizes these.

The "tantras" usually do not.

Best wishes, 

Dallas

======================

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald 
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 5:58 PM
To: 
Subject: RE: Meditation Part l

---There are "non-meditative" avenues accomplishing the same tasks. 
The needing or requiring of meditation for this or that is not accurate.---
 
Well, there is magical ritual, which I have had some success with in the
past. But this is a Theosophy list and Theosophists don't like to hear about
magic.
 

---This is not said from intellectual understandings. ---
 
Good, because the intellect will take us nowhere at all.
 
 
---The sharing of
"non-meditative" practices have assisted many in achieving goals
where meditation proved to be inadequate.----
 
How many is "many?" What do you mean by "inadequate?"   By whose standards? 
 
 	CUT