Theos-Talk Archives (June 2005 Message tt00407)

Dear Jerry,

>I always thought that a real service would be to have people master 
these technologies and teach them in the US which uses 80% of the 
world's resources. I suspect that if it happened, the energy 
corporations would get a lot of laws enacted in order to make such 
projects impossible.<

Indeed, European Commission brought a bill (already a law now) that 
only about 20% (as I remember) of oil produced from olive turnip (?) 
can be inserted in diesel fuel. It could be used as independent fuel 
without problem.
But there are not only ecological issues which should be approached 
with more sensibility for the needs of people and environment. For 
instance, we are all using PCs and mobile telephones, but maybe only 
10 % of their capabilities and applications for we simply don't need 
them all. But we have to struggle to learn how to use this 
technology for some simple but specific work, mostly without 
attainable support if we aren't lucky enough to have an instructed 
friend. It seems that an individual user is some sort of orphan in 
this high tech Eldorado.

And Dallas, thank you very much for your information.

>I always thought of the Secret Doctrine as one of those books which 
forces the reader to start forming new pathways if they are to begin 
to understand what is in that book. It is a really extraordinary 
book, but must be read slowly, carefully and thoughtfully.<

In a certain sense it is privilege if one is not born in English 
speaking country and therefore have to decide that the theosophical 
literature should be available in other languages too. So, the 
translation can become an everyday exercize for grey cells and The 
Secret Doctrine an ongoing project offering opportunity for mental 
adventures.

>I'm not sure if anyone is right for that kind of competition.<

Yes, probably there is hardly room for moderate people in 
gladiator's arena.

>Seems that in Europe, political awareness cuts across all age 
levels.<

I believe so. Europeans are still politically aware people who care 
about what is going on around them. And when they have an 
opportunity, as it was now in regard to the European Constitution, 
they send a clear message.
Maybe the difference is also due to the fact that America has 
somehow suppressed the labor movement, so the working people aren't 
protected as in Europe, where they are constantly on the barricades 
for their rights, what keeps them aware.
Much similar is (was) with the students movement, although the 
golden age of students protests is somehow exhausted.

>It seems that their are always a few souls who naturally gravitate 
in the direction of altruism--more people just want to make sure 
that get a piece of the pie and don;t want to know anything else.<

If we read the citation of John Swinton's speach brought by Vladimir 
(Thanks for that!) we can probably imagine a little how hard it is 
to challenge such situations. It is extreme courage needed, although 
I hope that he was talking out of bitterness that he didn't find 
enough force to oppose the system and that the things are not so 
much hopeless.

Warmest regards,
Anton



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@c...> 
wrote:
> Dear Anton,
> 
> >So, they created radio apparatus out of coca-
> >cola preserve, using buffalo's excrement as a source of energy.
> >
> I had a small collection of newspaper and magazine articles about 
people 
> who did things like make their cars run from pig's excrement, 
recycling 
> rain water for gardening, solar energy for heating water, building 
> techniques to take advantage of the sun's energy etc. Occasionally 
I 
> hear of someone who put it all together and became independent of 
the 
> water and power companies, but yet meet any of them. I always 
thought 
> that a real service would be to have people master these 
technologies 
> and teach them in the US which uses 80% of the world's resources. 
I 
> suspect that if it happened, the energy corporations would get a 
lot of 
> laws enacted in order to make such projects impossible.
> 
> >Maybe the most interesting and applicable would be his way of 
> >breaking stereotypes in which mind see the things. He had some 
> >interesting graphic exercises to that purpose, but I can't 
reproduce 
> >it here, so I will send you an example on your private e-mail.
> >
> Yes, I remember this from the 60s when Gestalt therapy become 
popular. I 
> was working at an open setting Community Mental Health center at 
the 
> time. The mind travels its well worn groves until one gets 
> (metaphorically) slapped across the head by a larger reality. I 
always 
> thought of the Secret Doctrine as one of those books which forces 
the 
> reader to start forming new pathways if they are to begin to 
understand 
> what is in that book. It is a really extraordinary book, but must 
be 
> read slowly, carefully and thoughtfully.
> 
> >Yes, the methodology is neutral per se. It is the operator who 
> >determines the nature of its use. And as always, it is the motive 
> >which is important. Individuals and agencies have to earn for 
their 
> >living and if there are public resources lacking (due to the 
> >privatization of public budget) they lose their independence and 
> >they have to, to not jeopardize their existence, adopt themselves 
to 
> >the demand of employer, often quite self-restrectively. (We used 
to 
> >say here that they have a political commissar in their head.) And 
> >there are really only few who are courageous enough to challenge 
> >such situations.
> >
> Yes, there were political polls preceding the 2004 Presidential 
election 
> predicting a win for Bush, and others for Kerry, which were trying 
to 
> influence the public. There were others out there who were trying 
to 
> accurately measure who was favored where. This is the first time I 
have 
> ever seen a Presidential administration so blatantly trying to 
> manipulate public opinion. I remember all of this starting in the 
Reagan 
> administration where they made a fine art of it. But what they are 
doing 
> now is comparatively crass.
> 
> >Far for being an expert, but I got the impression that he is not 
the 
> >right person for such type of competition, it seemed that he is 
not 
> >in his shoes, and that they should conduct a different campaign 
or 
> >have another candidate.
> >
> I'm not sure if anyone is right for that kind of competition. The 
Karl 
> Rove technique is to go after the candidate's strongest points and 
> destroy them from there. They did that to Kerry by attaching his 
war 
> record and then took a line out of context from one of his 
speeches to 
> give the impression that he was unable to lead. The party which 
wins is 
> always the party which controls the rhetoric. Eventually the 
average 
> person will realize that the Iraq war is another Vietnam 
situation, and 
> we are nearing a very serious recession. The signs are all around 
us and 
> a few people are beginning to see them. Retail is down, gasoline 
is 
> near, and sometime over $2.50 a gallon. There are the kinds of 
things 
> which usually brings about a change of parties--but not always. 
There 
> are some very popular Republicans who might have a good chance in 
2008.
> 
> >I would say that this is quite common in Europe. People see their 
> >political leaders as more or less corrupt and the state as enemy 
> >which takes their money and otherwise hinders their freedom and 
> >which don't care much about their needs. Maybe the Scandinavian 
> >countries are different for there the social awareness is quite 
high.
> >
> Well, that is something to ponder. In this country, most voters 
are of 
> retirement age and are primarily interested in things like 
building more 
> prisons and have more police in order to protect their property. 
Seems 
> that in Europe, political awareness cuts across all age levels.
> 
> >Yes, and I would add that this development of discrimination 
demands 
> >not only the capability to think but also the capability of 
ethical 
> >evaluation and that a really awaken human being sees the "sorrow 
in 
> >the eyes of forgotten children" and acts accordingly.
> >  
> >
> It seems that their are always a few souls who naturally gravitate 
in 
> the direction of altruism--more people just want to make sure that 
get a 
> piece of the pie and don;t want to know anything else. My wife 
developed 
> and teaches a graduate level course which exposes public 
corruption. It 
> is a life changing course for many of them. Few are aware of the 
extent 
> and systemic nature of the public corruption and are very deeply 
shocked 
> when the material is presented to them. Near the end of the 
semester 
> they begin to feel depressed and helpless. But these are all 
students 
> who are training to become Public Administrators, so she uses the 
last 
> part of the semester to teach them things they can do in order to 
> mitigate against the trend.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anton Rozman wrote:
> 
> >Dear Jerry,
> >
> >>From the review this does indeed appear to be an excellent book. 
I 
> >am especially impressed that he is interested in helping the 
> >underclass.<
> >
> >Yes, he undertook some really impressive projects with his 
students, 
> >for instance, designing wireless and TV sets for undeveloped 
regions 
> >of Africa and Asia. So, they created radio apparatus out of coca-
> >cola preserve, using buffalo's excrement as a source of energy. 
The 
> >cost of this unique wireless set was 8 cents, but people could 
> >listen to their local news and decorated it as they want, 
creating 
> >some really special pieces. If I recall well the cost of TV set 
was 
> >50 dollars.
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Perhaps there are some ideas here which could be applied to other
> >>    
> >>
> >altruistic efforts? Ideas which we can use?<
> >
> >Maybe the most interesting and applicable would be his way of 
> >breaking stereotypes in which mind see the things. He had some 
> >interesting graphic exercises to that purpose, but I can't 
reproduce 
> >it here, so I will send you an example on your private e-mail.
> >As he worked as professor at the California Institute of the Arts 
> >too, maybe they have some more information about his unique 
> >educational approach.
> >
> >But I read this book long time ago and don't have it anymore, so 
I 
> >can remember only some fragments and his well grounded idealistic 
> >orientation and enlightening message. And there is another book 
of 
> >his, The Green Imperative: Natural Design for the Real World, 
which 
> >unfortunately I didn't read yet.
> >
> >For interested here is his biography link: 
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Papanek
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Often poles are used in political campaigns in order to create 
> >>    
> >>
> >public opinion. But, poles can have more honest uses too, and 
they 
> >often do.<
> >
> >Yes, the methodology is neutral per se. It is the operator who 
> >determines the nature of its use. And as always, it is the motive 
> >which is important. Individuals and agencies have to earn for 
their 
> >living and if there are public resources lacking (due to the 
> >privatization of public budget) they lose their independence and 
> >they have to, to not jeopardize their existence, adopt themselves 
to 
> >the demand of employer, often quite self-restrectively. (We used 
to 
> >say here that they have a political commissar in their head.) And 
> >there are really only few who are courageous enough to challenge 
> >such situations.
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Kerry's was the most poorly managed campaigns since Goldwater in
> >>    
> >>
> >1964.<
> >
> >Far for being an expert, but I got the impression that he is not 
the 
> >right person for such type of competition, it seemed that he is 
not 
> >in his shoes, and that they should conduct a different campaign 
or 
> >have another candidate.
> >
> >  
> >
> >>One thing I like about France is that the people (on the whole) 
do 
> >>    
> >>
> >not trust their government. That, combined with a free press and 
a 
> >public who remains politically aware, they do a good job keeping 
> >their government in check.<
> >
> >I would say that this is quite common in Europe. People see their 
> >political leaders as more or less corrupt and the state as enemy 
> >which takes their money and otherwise hinders their freedom and 
> >which don't care much about their needs. Maybe the Scandinavian 
> >countries are different for there the social awareness is quite 
high.
> >
> >  
> >
> >>The fatal flaw is that most Americans don't want to know how bad 
> >>    
> >>
> >things really are.<
> >
> >I think that this is quite natural reaction, and if their social 
> >position is not in danger people don't want to see ugly things. 
They 
> >usually turn away from bad scenes. But here comes in play one's 
> >moral dimension. Morally developed person takes the 
responsibility 
> >and tries to overcome this natural reaction of lower bodies and 
to 
> >act to eliminate injustice.
> >
> >  
> >
> >>The development of discrimination requires training. People have 
to 
> >>    
> >>
> >be trained to think critically. Most do not know how. … Theosophy 
is 
> >for people who can think, or who can drive themselves to think. 
One 
> >could also apply this to what is required to become an awakened 
> >human being.<
> >
> >Yes, and I would add that this development of discrimination 
demands 
> >not only the capability to think but also the capability of 
ethical 
> >evaluation and that a really awaken human being sees the "sorrow 
in 
> >the eyes of forgotten children" and acts accordingly.
> >
> >
> >Warmest regards,
> >Anton
> >  
> >
> >  
> >