Theos-Talk Archives (June 2005 Message tt00321)

June 13 2005

Thanks Bill and Friends:


Let me add some comments below:

You responded:

-------------------------------------------

B
I would say that it is Spirit itself that needs further elucidation through
direct experience.  The word "spiritual" is only a word and should not be
mistaken for that which it signifies nor should definitions (words that
describe other words) become obstacles to experience of the nameless.

--------------------------------------------
 
DTB	

1
“Spirit” to me is all inclusive, ALTRUISTIC, and IDEAL. It is not limited
by either time or space, but is eternal “perfection.” 

It IS : The WHOLE. “Purusha.” 

Symbol: SPACE. 

Contrast: “Matter,” or “forms, each being aggregated from matter.” 

2
Contrast is “form” or “Matter.” Each “unit” consists of a conjoined
fragment of “Spirit-Matter” or a M O N A D.

“Prakriti.”

3
Consciousness, awareness, intelligence, perception may be said to define in
general UNIVERSAL MIND .

“Mahat.” 

--------------------------------------------------
 

D	What is wrong with selfishness ? 
 
B
I would say that nothing is "wrong" with selfishness. Selfishness is the
chosen experience of attachment.  When selfishness is understood as "just
the gunas at work" then I may detach from selfishness, even though the gunas
may continue to be at work. For some this may appear to be a paradox which
may lead them attach again and again to the gunas (specifically sattva)in
search of a solution to their paradox.  I perceive no paradox.
 
The Lord KRISHNA said:
(...) The gunas called sattva, rajas, and tamas are born from Prakrti, and
they fetter the eternal embodied souls to their bodies, strong-armed one. 
Among these gunas, sattva, which because of its spotlessness is illumining
and salubrious, binds the soul by means of an attachment to joy and an
attachment to knowledge, prince sans blame. (...) [underline added]
 
 
Arjuna said:
My lord, what are the signs by which one who transcends the gunas may be
known?  How does he behave?  And how does he overcome these three gunas?
 
The Lord said,
That man does not abhor illumination, activism, and delusion when they are
at work in himself, nor aspires to them when they are not at work.  A manis
said to have transcended the gunas when he sits aside as a disinterested
party, is not moved by the gunas and does not react to them, knowing that it
is just the gunas at work; who is equable in happiness and unhappiness,
self-contained, equal-minded toward a lump of clay, a rock of gold, the same
toward the pleasing and the displeasing, imperturbable, facing blame and
praise with equanimity, equable in honour and dishonour, and toward friend
and foe, and who relinquishes all undertakings.
 
---Bhagavad Gita (14:5)

--------------------------------------------------------
 
DTB	I fully agree with this.

Here are some of my notes:

GUNAS (3 Qualities in Nature)

		

THREE QUALITIES EQUILIBRIZED IN MANIFESTED NATURE


"The unwise, delighting in the controversies of the Vedas, tainted with
worldly lusts , and preferring a transient enjoyment of heaven to eternal
absorption, whilst they declare there is no other reward, pronounce flowery
sentences which promise rewards in future births for present action,
ordaining also many special ceremonies the fruit of which is merit leading
to power and objects of enjoyment. But those who thus desire riches and
enjoyment have no certainty of soul and least hold on meditation.

The subject of the three Vedas is the assemblage of the three qualities.
Be thou free from these qualities, O Arjuna! Be free from the 'pairs of
opposites' and constant in the quality of Sattva, free from worldly anxiety
and the desire to preserve present possessions, self-centered and
uncontrolled by objects of mind or sense."	Gita, p. 15-16


[Gita Notes, p. 62-3 } : "These three qualities are Sattwa, Rajas, and
Tamas, and are separately treated in a succeeding chapter [ Ch. 14, 17 ].

	

SATTVA - GUNA: PURITY OF MOTIVE, SPIRITUALITY


"Now Sattwa-guna is a pure high quality, the opposite of Tamoguna which is
darkness and indifference. Yet the remarkable advice is here given, "be
thou free from these three qualities." It is a very great wonder that this
has not been pounced upon before as showing that Krishna directs his
followers to renounce the quality of goodness, and thus directly encourage
wickedness, but as that is immediately followed by the direction to "repose
upon eternal truth," possible critics have been perhaps deterred by the
seeming paradox. It is evident at once that a higher sort of Sattwa is
referred to in the words "eternal truth."  

Sattwa is the Sanskrit for truth, and is not qualified when its place among
the three qualities is given, so that, when the disciple frees himself from
this ordinary Sattwa, he is to take refuge in its eternal counterpart.
Further, the instruction is not to renounce truth or either of the other two
qualities, but to remain freed from the influence or binding force that any
sort of quality has upon the human Ego...The essence of the instruction
given by Krishna is to become devoted..."	G. Notes, 62-4


RAJAS - DESIRE, ACTIVITY


ACTION - PASSIONATE AND DISCRIMINATIVE


"A man enjoyeth not freedom from action by the non-commencement of that
which be hath to do; nor doth he obtain happiness from a total abandonment
of action. No man ever resteth a moment inactive. Every man is
involuntarily urged to act by the qualities which spring from nature.

He who remains inert, restraining the senses and organs, yet pondering with
his heart upon objects of sense, is called a false pietist of bewildered
soul.

But he who having subdued all his passions performeth with his active
faculties all the duties of life, unconcerned as to their result, is to be
esteemed. Do thou perform the proper actions: action is superior to
inaction...Abandon, then, O son of Kunti, all selfish motives, and in action
perform thy duty for Him alone."	Gita p. 23



MOTIVE FOR ACTION


"All actions are effected by the qualities of nature...the qualities act
only in the qualities, and that Self is distinct from them, is not attached
in action...But the wise man also seeketh for that which is homogeneous with
his own nature. All creatures act according to their natures; what, then,
will restraint effect? In every purpose of the senses are fixed affection
and dislike. A wise man should not fall in the power of these two passions
[egotism, anguish], for they are the enemies of man."	Gita, pp 26-7



"There can be no action unless there is something to be acted upon; that
something is the highest substance; it is that which fills all space, and
from which all denser forms of substance or matter have been evolved, and
within which they are contained. Thus the body represents on this plane all
the other states of substance from which it has been evolved' it is
surrounded by, and connected with them. A study of the Seven Principlesof
Man will give an understanding of this statement, if it is remembered that
Man, the Thinker, is not any of his principles; they are his vehicles or
instruments."	Gita Notes, pp. 192-3



THE SPIRITUAL SELF


"Individual spirit or Purusha is said to be the cause of experiencing pain
and pleasure (through the connection with nature found in the instrument);
for spirit, when invested with matter or prakriti experienceth the qualities
that proceed from prakriti; its connection with these qualities (and
self-identification with them) is the cause of its rebirth in good and evil
wombs." Gita, p. 96


"The spirit in the body is called Maheshwara, the Great Lord, the spectator,
the admonisher, the sustainer, the enjoyer, and also Paramatma, the highest
soul." [ Gita 96 ] This sentence really tells the whole story; the Spirit
sees, rectifies, sustains and enjoys through its instrument or vehicle; the
ideal of progress is a perfected vehicle which will contact and reflect in
the highest sense all worlds and all beings." G. Notes, 192



THE SUPREME SPIRIT


"That which informs and moves all manifestation is the One Spirit. That
Spirit is the Real and Permanent in all forms and beings; as Krishna says
"it is wisdom itself, the object of wisdom, and that which is to be obtained
by wisdom; in the hearts of all it ever presideth...[it is] the receptacle
and the seed;" it is the power to perceive, the consciousness, the life in
all things. It is the cause of all manifestation and is the holder of all
knowledge gained thereby. Causing and perceiving change, It changes not.
All power and all law proceed from IT, are inherent in IT."	Gita
Notes, pp. 193-4



ASSISTANCE FROM THE HIGHER SELF

		
"Many who were free from craving, fear and anger, filled with my spirit, and
who depended upon me, having been purified by the ascetic fire of knowledge,
have entered into my being. In whatever way men approach me, in that way do
I assist them; but whatever the path taken by mankind that path is mine, O
son of Pritha...Know me, then, although changeless and not acting, to be the
author of this. Actions affect me not, nor have I any expectations from the
fruits of actions. He who comprehendeth me to be thus is not held by the
bonds of action to rebirth.”	[Krishna Speaking as the Higher Self.]
Gita, p. 32



"The Lord of the world creates neither the faculty of acting, nor actions,
nor the connection [ karma] between action and its fruits; but nature
prevaileth in these. The Lord receives no man's deeds, be they sinful or
full of merit. * 
_____________________________
[ Fn. * : In the Vedic philosophy it is held that all actions, whether
they be good or bad, are brought about by the three great qualities--sattva,
rajas, tamas--inherent in all throughout evolution. This is set forth...in
the 7th and 15th Chapters...the manner is which those qualities show
themselves is fully given.] BHAGAVAD GITA, p. 40-1 & Fn.


"In all creatures, I am the life, and the power of concentration in those
whose minds are on the spirit. Know me, O son of Pritha, as the eternal
seed of all creatures. I am the wisdom of the wise and the strength of the
strong who in action are free from desire and longing; in all creatures I
am desire regulated by moral fitness.  

Know also that the dispositions arising from the three qualities, sattva,
rajas, and tamas, are from me; they are in me, but I am not in them.

The whole world being deluded by these dispositions which are born from
these three qualities, knoweth not me distinct from them, supreme,
imperishable.

For this my divine illusive power, acting through the natural qualities, is
difficult to surmount, and those only can surmount it who have recourse to
me alone.

The wicked among men, the deluded and the low-minded, deprived of spiritual
perception by this illusion, and inclining to demoniacal dispositions, do
not have recourse to me.

Four classes of men who work righteousness worship me, O Arjuna; those who
are afflicted, the searchers for truth, those who desire possessions, and
the wise, O son of Bharata. Of these the best is the one possessed of
spiritual knowledge, who is always devoted to me...the spiritually wise is
verily myself."	Gita pp. 54-5



GODLIKE AND DEMONIACAL NATURES


Krishna:

"Fearlessness, sincerity, assiduity in devotion, generosity, self-restraint,
piety, and alms-giving, study, mortification, and rectitude; harmlessness,
veracity, and freedom from anger, resignation, equanimity, and not speaking
of the faults of others, universal compassion, modesty, and mildness;
patience, power, fortitude, and purity, discretion, dignity,
unrevengefulness, and freedom from conceit--these are the marks of him whose
virtues are of a godlike character, O son of Bharata.  

Those, O son of Pritha, who are born with demoniacal dispositions are marked
by hypocrisy, pride, anger, presumption, harshness of speech, and ignorance.
The destiny of those whose attributes are godlike is final liberation, while
those of demoniacal dispositions, born to the Asuras' lot, is continued
bondage to mortal birth; grieve not, O son of Pandu, for thou art born with
the divine destiny."	Gita, pp. 110-1 



WISDOM


"True wisdom of a spiritual kind is freedom from self-esteem, hypocrisy, and
injury to others; it is patience, sincerity, respect for spiritual
instructors, purity, firmness, self-restraint, dispassion for objects of
sense, freedom from pride, and a meditation upon birth, death, decay,
sickness, and error; it is an exemption from self-identifying attachment
for children, wife, and household, and a constant unwavering steadiness of
heart upon the arrival of every event whether favorable or unfavorable; it
is a never-ceasing love for me alone [the Higher Self], the [Lower] self
being effaced, and worship paid in a solitary spot, and a want of pleasure
in congregations of men; it is a resolute continuance in the study of
Adhyatma, the Superior Spirit, and a meditation upon the end of the
acquirement of a knowledge of truth;--this is called wisdom or spiritual
knowledge; its opposite is ignorance."	Gita p 94


THE ROOT OF ERROR

"Arjuna:

By what, O descendent of Vrishni, is man propelled to commit offenses;
seemingly against his will and as if constrained by a secret force ?

Krishna:

It is lust which instigates him. Is it passion, sprung from the quality of
rajas; [ Fn.: --Rajas is one of the three great qualities: the driving
power of nature; active and bad.] insatiable and full of sin. Know this to
be the enemy of man on earth.

As the flame is surrounded by smoke and a mirror by rust, and as the womb
envelops the fetus, so is the universe surrounded by this passion.

By this--the constant enemy of the wise man, formed from desire which rageth
like fire and is never to be appeased--is discriminative knowledge
surrounded. Its empire is over the senses and organs, the thinking
principle and the discriminating faculty also; by means of these it
cloudeth discrimination and deludeth the Lord of the body.

Therefore, O best of the descendants of Bharata, at the very outset
restraining thy senses, thou shouldst conquer this sin which is the
destroyer of knowledge and of spiritual discernment.

The sense and organs are esteemed great, but the thinking self is greater
that they. The discriminating principle (Buddhi) is greater than the
thinking self, and that which is greater than the discriminating principle
is He.

Thus knowing what is greater than the discriminating principle and
strengthening the lower by the Higher Self, do thou of mighty arms slay this
foe which is formed from desire and is difficult to seize."	Gita, pp.
27-29



"Deep reflection upon this reply by the Great Lord of Men shows us that the
realm over which the influence of passion extends is much wider than we at
first supposed...But the obstruction, the taint, is present among a greater
number of the factors that compose a being than is apparent.

(Sattwa) is of the nature of truth, pure and bright; the second (Rajas)
partakes of truth in a lesser degree, is of the nature of action, and has
also in it the quality of badness; the third, Tamas, is wholly bad, and its
essential peculiarity is indifference, corresponding to darkness, in which
no action of a pure quality is possible.

These three great divisions...gunas--comprehend all the combinations of what
we call "qualities," whether they be moral, mental or physical.

This passion, or desire, spoken of in the chapter is composed of the two
last qualities, Rajas and Tamas...it is intractable.

It is not possible, as some teach, to bring desire of this sort into our
service. It must be slain. It is useless to try to use it as a helper,
because its tendency is more towards Tamas, that is, downward, than towards
the other.

It is shown to surround even knowledge. It is present...in every action.
Hence the difficulty encountered by all men who set out to cultivate the
highest that is in them...Krishna teaches that its empire reaches
beyond...and includes the heart and the intellect also.

The incarnated soul (Lower Manas) desiring knowledge and freedom finds
itself snared continually by Tamas, which, ruling also in the heart and
mind, is able to taint knowledge and thus bewilder the struggler.

Among the senses particularly, this force has sway. And the senses include
all the psychical powers so much desired by those who study occultism...In
this part of the human economy the dark quality is peculiarly powerful.
Error is more likely to be present there than elsewhere, and unless the seer
is self-governed he gets no valuable knowledge, but is likely to fall at
last, not only into far more grievous error, but into great wickedness.

[Krishna teaches] "In the first place, restrain thy senses." Gita Notes,
pp. 95-97



PRAKRITI (SUBSTANCE) OR NATURE


"The great Brahma * is my womb in which I place the seed; from that, O son
of Bharata, is the production of all existing things. [ Fn.: * Brahma is
to be taken as Prakriti, nature or substance. ] This great Brahma is the
womb for all those various forms which are produced from any womb, and I am
the Father who provideth the seed. The three great qualities called sattva,
rajas, and tamas--light or truth, passion or desire, and indifference or
darkness--are born from nature, and bind the imperishable soul to the body,
O thou of mighty arms." 
Gita, pp. 100-1



SATTVA - LIGHT OR TRUTH


"Know that Prakriti or nature, (substance), and Purusha the spirit, are
without beginning. And know that the passions and the three qualities are
sprung from Nature (Prakriti). Nature or prakriti is said to be that which
operates in producing cause and effect in actions."	Gita, p. 96


"This perishable body, O son of Kunti, is known as Kshetra; those who are
acquainted with the true nature of things call the soul who knows it, the
Kshetrajna. Know also that I am the Knower in every mortal body, O son of
Bharata; that knowledge which through the soul is a realization of both the
known and the knower is alone esteemed by me as wisdom...

This body, then, is made up of the great elements, Ahankara--egotism,
Buddhi--intellect or judgment, the unmanifest, invisible spirit; the ten
centers of action, the mind, and the five objects of sense; desire,
aversion, pleasure and pain, persistency of life, and firmness, the power of
cohesion....	Gita, pp. 93-4


Best wishes,

Dallas

===================

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Meredith 
Re: unbounded freedom AND LIMITED FREEDOM

Dear Bill:
 
If the “I” is a ’portion,’ and inseparable from the ONE SPIRIT, then its
apparent independence is merely a ‘reflection’ of the fact that  IT IS –
along with billiards (?) of other beings – or, the entire Universe.
 
The reason for this is as it seems to me found in the philosophy of
THEOSOPHY .
 
1)         Beyond the limitations of ‘manifestation’ there is THAT the
ABSOLUTE – indescribable.  Symbol:  SPACE.
 
2)         In manifestation the first “division” is SPIRIT -- MATTER.  Or,
(1) the universal impartite IDEAL, and (2) any and all ‘limitations’ (or
vestures, sheaths, principles, etc., ) as they are called in philosophy. 
But a difficulty arises here, as alone, they cannot perceive each other.
[see 4 below]
 
3)         These two (Spirit/Matter), are the primary illimitable and truly
infinite, impersonal and impartite Universal M O N A D.  And from IT are
derived all other monads of lesser experience.  [The Monad is sometimes
called an immortal Pilgrim, or a  “life-atom.”] To it, wisdom, total and
universal memory, discrimination, independence, the power to choose, and
idealism are attributed. 
 
4)         Universal Law is necessarily present in the whole of
manifestation.  Every Monad has the same opportunities.  Each Monad is a
brother to all other Monads. A direct cognition of this fact has been called
one of the Goals of the evolutionary process through reincarnation.
 
4)         Every monad in its bi-polar nature would have relation with its
antithesis only through the medium of the Mind (the UNIVERSAL MIND)  Thus
the third and simultaneous factor in manifestation is not TWO, but THREE
{Spirit-Mind-Matter}
 
5)         Mind, consciousness, perception, memory, logic, intuition,
idealism, imagination and intelligence, are said to be inter-related
gradations of the linking mental faculty.  Mind is therefore of a triple
nature:  pure ratiocination, spiritual Mind, and Selfish, material limited
Mind. 
 
6)         “Desire” and “instinct,” are other faculties, and they are
separable from the Mind.  The Mind can create, modify and abolish imaginary
pictures of what it desires to come about. It is intimately related to
selfish and isolationist concepts of embodiment and ‘property;’ and the
various kinds of limits of form.  The power of imagination creates pictures
of any ‘desire to possess’ in various ways.
 
7)         Resistance to selfishness and the desire to possess or to receive
recompense for meritorious actions, is said in every major philosophy to be
the “path” to Spiritual Attainment. 
 
8)         Why are manifestation, reincarnation, joy, pain,suffering,
friendship and enmity so much a part of our lives?  Is it not that we
individually may learn the unity of the UNIVERSE and of the SPIRIT ?
 
9)         In THEOSOPHY it is said we do not live for ourselves alone, but,
rather, to assist other Monads – those of lesser experience – to understand
and realize this vast effort – of this school in which we are all
co-pupils.  We have to discover our own level and status, and from then on
strive to share our growing knowledge and discoveries along the “Way,” with
all our brothers. 
 
I find this inspiring.  Certainly it is a lot better than being called a
“sinner,” and allowed a single life under the tyranny of a whimsical (and
powerless) “God,” in which to attain “Spiritual Perfection.” 
 
I have two questions: 
 
The word “spiritual” needs further definition.
 
 
I would say that it is Spirit itself that needs further elucidation through
direct experience.  The word "spiritual" is only a word and should not be
mistaken for that which it signifies nor should definitions (words that
describe other words) become obstacles to experience of the nameless.
 
 
What is wrong with selfishness ? 
 
I would say that nothing is "wrong" with selfishness. Selfishness is the
chosen experience of attachment.  When selfishness is understood as "just
the gunas at work" then I may detach from selfishness, even though the gunas
may continue to be at work. For some this may appear to be a paradox which
may lead them attach again and again to the gunas (specifically sattva)in
search of a solution to their paradox.  I perceive no paradox.
 
The Lord said:
(...) The gunas called sattva, rajas, and tamas are born from Prakrti, and
they fetter the eternal embodied souls to their bodies, strong-armed one. 
Among these gunas, sattva, which because of its spotlessness is illumining
and salubrious, binds the soul by means of an attachment to joy and an
attachment to knowledge, prince sans blame. (...) [underline added]
 
 
Arjuna said:
My lord, what are the signs by which one who transcends the gunas may be
known?  How does he behave?  And how does he overcome these three gunas?
 
The Lord said,
That man does not abhor illumination, activism, and delusion when they are
at work in himself, nor aspires to them when they are not at work.  A manis
said to have transcended the gunas when he sits aside as a disinterested
party, is not moved by the gunas and does not react to them, knowing that it
is just the gunas at work; who is equable in happiness and unhappiness,
self-contained, equal-minded toward a lump of clay, a rock of gold, the same
toward the pleasing and the displeasing, imperturbable, facing blame and
praise with equanimity, equable in honour and dishonour, and toward friend
and foe, and who relinquishes all undertakings.
 
---Bhagavad Gita (14:5)