Theos-Talk Archives (May 2005 Message tt00592)

Hallo Anand and all,

Anand wrote:
"Special thing about modern
> Theosophical movement is Annie Besant and Leadbeater gave IN DETAIL
> EXPLAINATION of laws of Nature."
If we ask ourselves just one rethoric question:

Where do Annie Besant and Leadbeater give out teachings on AtmaVidya
in detail using Blavatsky's definition of AtmaVidya / BrahmaVidya / 
ParaVidya?

(And of course we agree, that they do not need to be given credit for that.
Others wrote and have later on written very well on the subject.)
- - - - - - -

H. P. Blavatsky wrote:
"There are four (out of the many other) names of the various kinds of 
Esoteric Knowledge or Sciences given, even in the esoteric Purānas. There is 
(1) Yajna-Vidya,1 knowledge of the occult powers awakened in Nature by the 
performance of certain religious ceremonies and rites. (2) Maha-vidya, the 
"great knowledge," the magic of the Kabalists and of the Tantrika worship, 
often Sorcery of the worst description. (3) Guhya-Vidya, knowledge of the 
mystic powers residing in Sound (Ether), hence in the Mantras (chanted 
prayers or incantations) and depending on the rhythm and melody used; in 
other words a magical performance based on Knowledge of the Forces of Nature 
and their correlation; and (4) ATMA-VIDYA, a term which is translated simply 
"knowledge of the Soul," true Wisdom by the Orientalists, but which means 
far more.

This last is the only kind of Occultism that any theosophist who admires 
Light on the Path, and who would be wise and unselfish, ought to strive 
after. All the rest is some branch of the "Occult Sciences," i.e., arts 
based on the knowledge of the ultimate essence of all things in the Kingdoms 
of Nature--such as minerals, plants and animals--hence of things pertaining 
to the realm of material nature, however invisible that essence may be, and 
howsoever much it has hitherto eluded the grasp of Science. Alchemy, 
Astrology, Occult Physiology, Chiromancy, exist in Nature and the exact 
Sciences--perhaps so called, because they are found in this age of 
paradoxical philosophies the reverse--have already discovered not a few of 
the secrets of the above arts. But clairvoyance, symbolised in India as the 
"Eye of Siva," called in Japan, "Infinite Vision," is not Hypnotism, the 
illegitimate son of Mesmerism, and is not to be acquired by such arts. All 
the others may be mastered and results obtained, whether good, bad or 
indifferent; but Atma-Vidya sets small value on them. It includes them all 
and may even use them occasionally, but it does so after purifying them of 
their dross, for beneficent purposes, and taking care to deprive them of 
every element of selfish motive. Let us explain: Any man or woman can set 
himself or herself to study one or all of the above specified "Occult Arts" 
without any great previous preparation, and even without adopting any too 
restraining mode of life. One could even dispense with any lofty standard of 
morality. In the last case, of course, ten to one the student would blossom 
into a very decent kind of sorcerer, and tumble down headlong into black 
magic. But what can this matter? The Voodoos and the Dugpas eat, drink and 
are merry over heca-tombs of victims of their infernal arts. And so do the 
amiable gentlemen vivisectionists and the diploma-ed "Hypnotizers" of the 
Faculties of Medicine; tube only difference between the two classes being 
that the Voodoos and Dugpas are conscious, and the Charcot-Richet crew 
unconscious, Sorcerers. Thus, since both have to reap the fruits of their 
labours and achievements in the black art, the Western practitioners should 
not have the punishment and reputation without the profits and enjoyments 
they may get therefrom. For we say it again, hypnotism and vivisection as 
practiced in such schools, are schools, are Sorcery pure and simple, minus a 
knowledge that the Voodoos and Dugpas enjoy, and which no Charcot-Richet can 
procure for himself in fifty years of hard study and experimental 
observation. Let then those who will dabble in magic, whether they 
understand its nature or not, but who find the rules imposed upon students 
too hard, and who, therefore lay Atma-Vidya or Occultism aside--go without 
it. Let them become magicians by all means, even though they do become 
Voodoos and Dugpas for the next ten incarnations. "
http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/OccultismVersusTheOccultArts.htm


- - - - - - -

TG Atma-jnani (Sk.). The Knower of the World-Soul, or Soul in general.

SKv Atma-jnanin, Tattva-jnanin Atma-jnanin is 'the Divine Self-knower'; a 
com pound of Atman, the divinity of man, and jnanin, the knower, from the 
verb-root jna -- to know. One who has realized or met face to face the 
Divinity within him is an Atma-jnanin. Tattva-jnanin is one who knows and 
understands the abstract cosmic essences or principles from which all in 
this Universe spring. Tattva literally means the 'that-ness' of a thing, 
from tat -- that, and tva, a noun suffix.

- - -

TG Atma Vidya (Sk.). The highest form of spiritual knowledge; lit., 
"Soul-knowledge".

WG Atma-vidya, knowledge of soul or the Supreme Spirit.

SD INDEX Atma-vidya (Skt) self-knowledge

called Rohanee by Sufis I 199
key to three other vidyas I 168-9
- - - - - - -

Here is one place where Besant is doing quite well.

It is true that Annie Besant wrote or held lectures about the isse.
The following is helpful to students:
"Theosophy and the Theosophical Society" BY Annie Besant
http://www.anandgholap.net/Theosophy_And_TS-AB.htm
(She also wrote a book named "The Wisdom of the Upanishads")

Forgive me, but I still fail to see where does Leadbeaters - Liberal 
Catholic teachings fit in
as a teaching on AtmaVidya ?
And how can TS Adyar then justify its rather strange relationship
with that organisation known as The Liberal Catholic Church?

But maybe one should ask an TS Adyar official instead.

I didn't find anything by Leadbeater on AtmaVidya, BrahmaVidya or ParaVidya.
But I might have overlooked something.

Instead a lot of problems surrounding Leadbeater keep popping up
http://www.parascience.org/bain2.htm
http://www.anandgholap.net/KH_Letter_To_CWL.htm
(If this is authentic it just shows Leadbeaters ignorance about basics on 
chelaship. - The year it was revceived is not given. Maybe someone could 
help us on that one.)


from
M. Sufilight



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anand Gholap" <AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 8:12 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re:Those who study Blavatsky's writing become 
fundamentalists


> > > Another thing is CWL and AB have shown problems in Blavatsky's
> > > writing in their usual polite manner. If you have read their
> > writings let me know where these have come. Otherwise read again
> > carefully in case you want to know them.
> >
> >
> > They attempted to make complex teachings more available to a wider
> > readership, and if they succeeded in this or not is for anyone to
> > judge. They may have seen certain topics differently from her, but as
> > I said before the essence of their contribution upholds the core
> > principles as presented by HPB: the unity of all life, the lawfulness
> > of the universe and the evolutionary pilgrimage for every soul
> > towards full Self-identity.
> These basic principles were known for centuries. They are in Vedas,
> Upanishads, Shankaracharya's writing and writings of many yogis.
> Blavatsky does not deserve credit for that. Special thing about modern
> Theosophical movement is Annie Besant and Leadbeater gave IN DETAIL
> EXPLAINATION of laws of Nature. Greatness of TS is it gave details,
> broad principles were known for centuries but never written in such
> details and given to world.
>
> Anand Gholap
>
>
>
>
>
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