Theos-Talk Archives (May 2005 Message tt00572)

Re: [Blavatsky_Study] Positing Infinity-In my defence Mr MillerTo:"Cass Silva" <silva_cass@yahoo.com> [input] [input] [input] [input] 

Cass Silva <silva_cass@yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Carl

Cass wrote: other than those that I have already submitted as my verification for what I imagine to be the truth.

Carl said: Then, are you basing your claim about body and soul upon "imagination"??? Can you see that we are not having a discussion about personal "imagination," but rather a critical study of the writings of HPB. 

Cass reiterates: the submitted passage stands as my interpretation of HPB on the subject matter. If you cannot see that this quote verifies my statement that spirit and matter are one then what can I say. You negate it to my imagination, or lack of critical analysis - I likewise do the same to you. If you imagine she was not referring to spirit and matter as one, please allow me to examine your interpretation- your objective critical analysis of meaning- of what this statement is actually saying.

I had to put up with this nonsense six months ago, and now it rears its ugly head again. If you do not want my input please ban me from your web site. I do not live or die on your acceptance of what I see as the truth. 

I do go straight to the source, that is HPB, and let's not forget that she wrote, "This work I dedicate to all true theosophists, in very country, and of every race, for they called it forth, and for them it was recorded. I do not see a postscript in this statement that delegates a moderator of her work to analyze interpretation. 

You can go on all you like about it being HPB specific when she herself says in the Preface of the SD. "FOR THIS WORK IS A PARTIAL STATEMENT OF WHAT SHE HERSELF HAS BEEN TAUGHT BY MORE ADVANCES STUDENTS, SUPPLEMENTED, IN A FEW DETAILS ONLY, BY THE RESULTS OF HER OWN STUDY AND OBSERVATION." If this method was good enough for her, it is good enough for me.

P57. One of the symbolical figures for the Dual creative power in Nature (matter and force on the material plane). Carl: What is force? 

P58. "The first and Fundamental dogma of Occultism is Universal Unity (or Homogeneity) under three aspects."

"The Lotus thus typifies the life of man and also that of the Kosmos; for the Secret Doctrine teaches that the elements of both are the same, and that both are developing in the same direction." - Carl- What does this mean?

P428 Isis Unveiled "Esoteric philosophers held that everything in nature is but a materialization of spirit". The Eternal First Cause is latent spirit, they said, and matter from the beginning. In the beginning was the word.....and the word was God.....
Spirit begat force, and force matter; and thus the latent deity manifested itself as a creative energy." Please translate for me.

Which also aroused my question are we God's hologram? Unfortunately, I cannot come up with a quote in Isis or the SD. Could the lower self is a projected hologram of the Higher Self. And as HPB repeatedly says, as above, so below. As this is what is called personal creative thinking- or what you deem fancy-imagination, I guess you will decide it is also off-topic.

I found it interesting that you suggest my imagination might be better suited to more "subjective" forums. How else can we study the SD? Objectively? Can you personally verify that everything that is written in the SD is your objective truth? I think not. Quoting other passages on the same subject does not verify truth, on the contrary, if you cannot explain to yourself the first passage, all others will be meaningless. In my experience of intellectuals at University, referring to the author is the scholars way of saying, I don't know.

You slander Jesus, Socrates and Plato, as you slander me, when you say, I rely on a vicarious atonement of these great souls (present company excluded). And to suggest that I believe in a personal god is an ignorant assumption. However, if you look deeper into the human psyche although our god might be absolute consciousness, we all feel we are personally connected to that consciousness, and we are not just a blip on god's radar. It's called love.

In HPB's immortal words,
It is written in the service of humanity, and by humanity and the future generations it must be judged. Its author recognises no inferior court of appeal. Abuse she is accustomed to; calumny she is daily acquainted with; at slander she smiles in silent contempt. The law does not concern itself with trifles.

Cass



carl miller <tort333@msn.com> wrote:
Cass wrote: My teachings on theosophy have been 50% passed on and 50% studying the texts, and as it is "my belief system" I do not necessarily need it to be supported by actual referenced passages.

________

Carl: Hello Cass, you are correct. It's a free country, and you certainly don't have to be subject to the "actual" facts. The list does not require anyone to accept Blavatsky's writings as authoritative or even true, but we do want to represent her teachings fairly and factually. That is not a matter of personal belief or imagination. It is simply a matter of examining the texts. The most direct path is to go straight to the source. We want to by-pass Blavatsky according to Beasant, or Blavatsky according to Leadbeater,or Blavatsky according to Bailey, or even Blavatsky according to our own fancy. We have the text, and it is the purpose of this list to examine the text and allow it to interpret itself.

There are so many lists online that take a subjective approach to the study of theosophy, and the result is a hodge-podge of New Age religions. If we are just another one of those lists, then we have no purpose. We might a well just join those groups, if we are going to accept the position of neo-theosophy and New Age.

________


Cass wrote: I like Socrates like to work with my daemon (my muse)who is separate from and distinct from my body.

________

Carl: You have every right to do so, just as others have the right to rely upon Jesus and vicarious atonement, and others may choose to be Vaisnavas and seek a personal god. I am only saying that our discussion has a theme, and we don't want to lose that focus. When one brings up a new discussion here, he will be asked how that ties in with Blavatsky. That should be obvious from the front page of the group.

________


Cass wrote: I am sorry I cannot give you the passage, other than those that I have already submitted as my verification for what I imagine to be the truth.

_________

Carl: Then, are you basing your claim about body and soul upon "imagination"??? Can you see that we are not having a discussion about personal "imagination," but rather a critical study of the writings of HPB. We are not saying that she was right or wrong. We are only asking that she receive a fair hearing without distortion.






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