Theos-Talk Archives (May 2005 Message tt00374)

May 12 05

Dear Rob:

Excellent choice and thanks again.

Thanks, see notes below. 

Dallas

PS
Nothing prevents you from participating in those positings and discussions.
So offer what you sense is valuable to others. We live and work to serve
them.

This is an excellent beginning.

==================================
 
-----Original Message-----
From: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Rob Ford
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 5:05 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Theos-World SINBARA DAS, MAHOUT

Hi,

I have been following along the lines of this our groups conversation
and see such enthusiasm but for the name calling there has been some
interesting ideas and questions posted.

About the Authority of H.P.B.

ULT trusts H.P.B. probably 1st because she planly indicated while 
pointing to the wisdom of the ancients that, the only authority
that can be trusted is ones' own power to think ie. The Higher Self.


DTB	AGREED [ See notes at bottom please ]


Those Three Fundamental Propositions of the Secret Doctrine are said 
to be the Key that unlocks all the mysteries of life. Those students 
that have focused their attention on this key are equiped to follow 
the line of involution evolution from the Universal to the particulars
where by gain the ability to follow the consciousness after the death 
of the body. But most clearly they tell the philosophical difference 
between a homogenious spiritual state and a heterogenious 
psychic,astral, or physical condition.


DTB	AGREED


We use this key to sift everybodys' writings, and everybodys'ideas 
looking for the spiritual.

Who can say what is spiritual and what is not? The student that uses 
the key as a living power.

Who can say what is Theosophical and what is not?


DTB	ONLY AGREEMENT WITH LAW CLEARS THE WAY


Theosophy does imply perfection.

But perfection for humans like us is not about being perfect. 
Perfection for humans lies in the ability to self correct.


DTB	THAT IS OUR FIRST LESSON AND IT WORKS ALL THE TIME


ULT seems to feel it is important to have a spiritual basis for 
considering the Life and Humanity and the laws of nature.

DTB	THEOSOPHY DOES. 
U L T IS ONLY A "VEHICLE." IT RECOMMENDS THAT
{see notes below }


"The doctrine of the head gives correction. The doctrine of 
the heart gives consideration. The doctrine of the heart sees Souls. 
The doctrine of the head sees sins. The head sees the state. The 
heart sees the Soul. 


DTB DO YOUR OWN DUTY NOT THE DUTY OF OTHERS, NOR SHOULD WE
SURVEY THEIRS, UNLESS MUTUAL WORK IS AGREED ON. 

There are some interesting Practical and Philosophical points in this 
story of SINBARA DAS, MAHOUT. Want to look it over.

DTB	I HAVE ALWAYS LOVED THIS ONE == so I am posting it. 

peace,

rob

=============================


SINBARA DAS, MAHOUT

SINBARA Das prospered exceedingly. 
By speech alone he guided his elephant, clothing sound reasons 
in soft tones. 
When the troop came to deep waters where the ford had been, the 
head man smote with his iron in vain. The elephants trumpeted one to 
another, denying the efficacy of effort. They swayed from side to 
side, trembling, fearing the sharp iron, fearing more the rush of 
waters as they said:
"Abstain, abstain from disturbing our meditation. We bear 
in our bosom the seed of further harvest. The plain of Iran waits. 
Delay us not." 
[ Posted separately ]
-----------------------------------------------------------

Notes: 

HPB AS AN "AUTHORITY"


HPB does not claim "authority." She claims to be a "messenger."
Specifically a messenger from the Great and Ancient Lodge of ADEPTS.  
 
In both ISIS UNVEILED and The SECRET DOCTRINE she disclaims any personal
authority and gives the credit for the records she transmits to the real
authors, the Mahatmas.

Since she was well aware that the Theosophical theories and hypotheses would
be received with various degrees of incredulity from the academies, she was
careful to make it clear that the information was in reality taken from the
HISTORY that the Adepts and their disciples (chelas) had recorded down the
ages. All that she requested was "equal time" and open consideration of
what Theosophy had to offer. [ S D I 272 - 300 ]
 
This suggests that THEOSOPHY is not a new fangled system of collated ideas
drawn from many sources -- in fact if it were even that, then the marvel is
of HPB's mind. And, her capacity in drawing such a vast diversity together
and showing how the many pieces hung together to form a seamless whole in
the world of ideas and concepts. In many student's experience and wide
reading, there is no one who has written such a comprehensive view of our
world, the organization of the universe, on the spiritual, intellectual and
psychological basis, and the part that Mankind plays in that.
 
The immortality of man's Spirit / Soul and the "God-spirit" (the Universal
DEIFIC ESSENCE), being present in every "life-atom" of our LIVING UNIVERSE,
are fundamental concepts.  

Everything in Nature trends in its life-experience towards a higher degree
of knowledge, wisdom, and perfection. Each life-cycle (incarnation) is like
a separate day at school and all are drawn together by the uniting thread of
the immortal, and eternal spiritual Self which is at their core. In fact
she shows how Theosophy traces the evolution of the "consciousness and
intelligence" of the SPIRITUAL SOUL or Monad, through many forms -- from the
atom to the human condition of independent free-will. As below, so above --
said the wise Hermes. The Atom and the Universe correspond in structure,
movement and objectives. They are integrated into one vast brotherhood of
sensitive and inter-protective laws. The great and the "small" are mutually
dependent. "Spirit" cannot exist without "matter." Eternal Mind -- is the
witness to all progress and life.

This sweep and concept is one that can be traced in every one of the great
religions and philosophies of the world. It is the record of their
existence, of their common source, and of our participation, again and
again, in those processes.  
 
Currently there is debate as to whether Theosophy has its roots in Buddhism,
Hinduism, Jainism, etc... And the place of Judaism, Kabala, Islam and
Sufism is discussed and considered in many ways.  

The question is always asked: 'Does knowledge, wisdom, and action have
limits?" The Universe stands as evidence that they not only do, b out that
the inter-relationship which permits diversified "life," is as ancient as
Science and philosophy are able to trace.

It is understood that scholars who are deeply familiar with those systems
and their development can trace the evidence and the pathways of the
development of similarities in observation and thought.  

However, HPB claims on behalf of the great and ancient Lodge of Adepts, that
all those were derived from the "Sanatana Dharma," the "Perennial
Philosophy." which is a record of Life's development and history which they
have observed and left records of. [ ISIS UNVEILED Vol. 2, pp. 98-105. ]  

Modern "Theosophy" [the Wisdom of the Deity] claims to expose the outlines
of this system and traces these facts everywhere in the world, and in the
records of history on all continents.
 
As such Theosophy claims to be at the root and at the origin of all the
great ancient religio-philosophical systems and provides a reason for their
development as systems of practice leading to that kind of "initiation"
which develops Wisdom in thought and mind as well as simultaneously the
application of compassion and harmlessness in motive.

Thus, Theosophy, is not exclusively religion, or philosophy but also
includes science -- it is the power to investigate and record the workings
of NATURE (Life as a Whole) in every stage and department of the world and
our Universe.
 
The sweep of the ever-present immortal Life, through cycles of evolution
lead at last to the "all-Knowingness" of the PERFECTED MAN. The designation
"Mahatma" (Great Soul) is one that includes all such self-developed men of
superior knowledge and nature. It is held that every single "monad" in our
world, and our Universe is destined to eventually enter the human stage of
"freedom to think." From there on, as we, humans can, the power to develop
further is placed squarely in our hands. The current test of humanity is?
will it dare to assume the responsibility? Will it follow Hermes' other
injunction: " Man, Know Thyself." 

The SECRET DOCTRINE therefore speaks of those great Initiates, the "Fathers"
and the "Guardians" of wisdom, as the intelligent guides, and assistants
that Nature employs to assist every fresh evolutionary effort, a "new Day"
of intelligent development and progress -- open without exceptions to all
beings.
 
If this is grasped the minute details and studies of specialists, while
respected, as continuing proof of the inclusive nature of Theosophy, is also
shown to be but the outer covering, to be but one way to approach to the
interior mystery of man's own mind, and its almost infinite capacities.  
 
If this infinite capacity of the human mind to grow and to understand the
most simple, as well as the most complex subjects is grasped, the more
learned will continually encourage the learners to investigate and prove for
themselves all avenues, however diverse, of information, tradition and lore.
And that is the always growing tip of the self-enlightening Mind. It always
widens out to that which is permanent and universal, when given a chance to
emerge from ignorance, doubt, skepticism and lethargy.
 

Theosophy shows us that the real energizers are OURSELVES.

DTB

============================

In 1877, HPB wrote in ISIS UNVEILED :

". . .we came into contact with certain men, endowed with such
mysterious powers and such profound knowledge that we may truly
designate them as the sages of the Orient. To their instructions we
lent a ready ear."

"The work now submitted to public judgment is the fruit of a somewhat
intimate acquaintance with Eastern adepts and study of their
science."

=================

Master K H in 1882 wrote to Sinnett: [ M L p. ? ]

". . . Our [esoteric or theosophical ] doctrine . . . is now being
partially taught to Europeans for the first time."

=================

In HPB's SECRET DOCTRINE, she writes: [ I 272]

". . . the SECRET DOCTRINE is not a treatise, or a series of vague
theories, but contains all [the teachings] that can be given out to
the world in this century." The Secret Doctrine, 1888, Vol I, p.
xxxviii (original edition)

And a few lines above, one reads:

". . . But it will take centuries before much more is given from it
[the Secret Archaic Doctrine]. . . . "


So did not HPB give out the teachings of the Masters?

If so, her presentation is the original one in modern times.

All later presentations are in that sense secondary (immediately
derived from something original, primary, or basic).


Madame Blavatsky wrote in THE SECRET DOCTRINE: 

"Mistakes have now to be checked by the ORIGINAL teachings and 
corrected." caps added


In 1891, HPB wrote [MY BOOKS ?] :

". . . every word of [esoteric] information found in this work [Isis
Unveiled] or in my later writings, comes from the teachings of our
Eastern Masters [Master KH, Master M and others]; and . . . many a
passage in these works has been written by me under their dictation
[of the "Masters"].

DTB