Theos-Talk Archives (May 2005 Message tt00162)

Hallo Cass and all,

My views are:

Your below views might seem true and wellmeaning they are.
But there are a few minor faults within them.

Let me see if I can be of service.

1.
Cass wrote:
"Doesn't anyone else get that the Masters were operating through HPB's 
physical body. It has also been suggested that it was used by a Nirmankaya. 
HPB told us that she was totally self conscious of her individuality and 
operated through this, although she, at the same time, was aware of, and 
used the brain power of the lower ego. The lower was simple a tool for the 
higher."

Yes. But never forget, that the amount of work carried on by the Masters 
(ie. plural) through a body like HPB's was not done to that great an amount.
It was much more like this. HPB communicated with the Masters and the 
actions needed were performed. Sometimes by HPB, sometimes by a Master. But 
mostly by HPB
when we talk about who used her body - ie. the three lower vehicles.
There is a theory about that HPB was obsessed by a number of different 
entities. A cannot agree upon that view.
If there were different enitities operating through HPB's body it was mostly 
entitites created and controlled by HPB herself. No doubt there.
HPB must have been either a third or fourth initiate or even higher. I would 
say at least a fourth initiate. This can be concluded by here many 
activities withnessed
by many - and spiritual fruits yielded by her activites.

2.
Cass wrote:
"To have such great energies running through her physical body must 
necessitate a grounding in the physical, without this grounding she would 
have been unable to operate in the World. "

Maybe HPB needed grounding. Or maybe it was much more because of social 
circumstances, that she - from time to time - needed to behave in a quite 
ordinary and almost animalistic manner. When she was surrounded with learned 
people whom themselves smoked cigarettes and ate flesh, one must from time 
to time make certain priorities so to acheive
ones spiritual goals. The mind is of greater importance than what one eats 
or the habit of smoking mild cigarettes. I think we can agree upon that.
HPB's "down to earth" habits was done for unselfish and social reasons.

A short note:
And trust me I have seen enough "new-age-vegetarians" who do not know how 
secure that they themselves to get enough nutirents in their own bodies.
The esoteric doctrine on eating is:
Eat what is needed and avoid meat if you can - and avoid eating at all if 
you can, - but when needed eat compassionately with wisdom and 
understanding - knowing that assumptions won't help. It is your duty to 
secure your own body's health. It is your intentions, which are of 
importance, but act wisely and seek to have a healthy body.

Do not torment your own body. Do not torment your selves.
Be social when needed, avoid being weird and seek companions out of 
compassion and not because of your own cravings.


3.
"The Masters themselves cannot remain too long here as the vibrations are so 
course that they need to refresh themselves in isolation, away from us. It 
has also been suggested that they reside in the etheric Shamballa. Hence, 
why it has never been seen by physical eyes."

My views are:
The Masters are so much developed, that they do not need to refresh 
themselves in the manner you describe at all.
This doctrine is a false doctrine. Where did you learn that ?
The Masters need to meet with those they need to meet. How long they remain 
(in the physical) is their choice, and their choice is always compassionate.
(The level of compasion can however be discussed.)
The reason that the Masters quite often is not visible to the public - is a 
mainly a Karmic one.
The reason that the Masters quite often is not showing themselves to their 
beginner chelas all the time is a karmic one, and not because they 
themselves need to refresh themselves.
It is because of the chelas karma, that they do not show themselves. And to 
a minor part due to their own Karma, because they do not always know enough 
about "timely meetings",
because they havn't yet the vision of the future with perfect precognition. 
With other words they do not know everything.
Only God - ParaBrahman do so. And we know that Atma = Brahman.

4.
Cass wrote:
"As we all know, normal folks must purify the lower bodies, clear the 
physical of toxins, clear the emotional of toxins, clear the mental of 
toxins, for us to meet the master within. Lifetimes are required to do 
this, and many of us, while clearing one body of toxins may have other 
bodies toxic. It does not happen in one lifetime, e.g. I (hypothetically) 
might be working on clearing my desires in this lifetime, and still remain a 
smoker and enjoy a glass of wine. That doesnt mean that one is less 
"spiritual" than one who is a vegetarian and a non smoker, but has yet to 
work on the passions, as obviously was the case with CWL."

I entirely agree.
This statement is a very important one.
I have here were I live and also elesehwere seen many Seekers who do not 
understand this very well.

I will add, that the beginner seeker, who is starting to open the heart 
quite often will go through a period
where being a vegetarian and a non-smoker is quite important to them. And 
that is good for them, because by that they will develop.
- When their spiritual heart has been opened enough, they can continue their 
lifes differently and be more fleksible. And then they might in the same 
life or perhaps in the next incarnartion, start to live more socially 
oriented than before when they were 
"Physical-new-age-vegetarian-pastel-color" oriented. They will realise, that 
they can help a lot of people who are not themselves vegetarians and 
non-smokers by acting socially towards them.
One requirement is though, that they do not only have an open heart, but 
also what we call wisdom. What that actually is, - is often being 
misunderstood by the beginner vegetarian-Seeker.
Small help is always help.
Nevertheless each Seekers activity might be in conflict with other Seekers 
on a higher level.
When we understand this - we also understand why for instance both Anand was 
right, and Caldwell and others were right in their views in the recent 
"flesh and smoking debate"- they were just all of them talking on different 
levels of consciousness.
They were if you ask me wrong in the recent debate on smoking etc - if they 
thought that their emails would develop the Seekers if they continued to 
write the same emails over and over...

My english is not as good as I wish. Maybe someone could explain this better 
than I.


5.
It is what you say, write or simply do, which has importance. Exactly This 
is what will create an impact on our surroundings, if we formulate ourselves
in a proper manner.

That is why it is not only the CONTENT of what we say, write or simply do, 
which has importance - it is so very much the IMPACT is has upon the 
surroundings or life as such.
What impact there is - are of a dual nature as well as a non-dual nature.
Som agree and understand the CONTENT, but they often do it in another 
manner, than we are doing it. Their different kind of absorbtion of the 
CONTENT could be an important fuel, so that they devleop spiritually.
Some disagree, because they are on another level. They do not understand the 
content. Their manner of disagreement could be an important fuel, so that 
they devleop spiritually.

Some understand the CONTENT, but they disagree because they are on a higher 
level of consciousness. The IMPACT the content have upon them is difficult 
to explain in words in a short manner, because it is of a highly 
multifactted kind.



from
M. Sufilight


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cass Silva" <silva_cass@yahoo.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 1:52 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Their were reasons for HPB's smoking


Dear Morten,

Doesn't anyone else get that the Masters were operating through HPB's 
physical body. It has also been suggested that it was used by a Nirmankaya. 
HPB told us that she was totally self conscious of her individuality and 
operated through this, although she, at the same time, was aware of, and 
used the brain power of the lower ego. The lower was simple a tool for the 
higher.

To have such great energies running through her physical body must 
necessitate a grounding in the physical, without this grounding she would 
have been unable to operate in the World. The Masters themselves cannot 
remain too long here as the vibrations are so course that they need to 
refresh themselves in isolation, away from us. It has also been suggested 
that they reside in the etheric Shamballa. Hence, why it has never been 
seen by physical eyes.

This grounding in earth, required HPB's body to take on course vibrations, 
and smoking, eating occasional meat and profanities is, in my 
opinion,necessary to keep her feet on the ground, so to speak. The masters 
told us that she was the best available at the time. But left it to us to 
figure out why she was chosen and the means for her to be able to work in 
the physical through the spiritual.

As we all know, normal folks must purify the lower bodies, clear the 
physical of toxins, clear the emotional of toxins, clear the mental of 
toxins, for us to meet the master within. Lifetimes are required to do 
this, and many of us, while clearing one body of toxins may have other 
bodies toxic. It does not happen in one lifetime, e.g. I (hypothetically) 
might be working on clearing my desires in this lifetime, and still remain a 
smoker and enjoy a glass of wine. That doesnt mean that one is less 
"spiritual" than one who is a vegetarian and a non smoker, but has yet to 
work on the passions, as obviously was the case with CWL.

As we are only embroyonic on the spiritual path, I fail to see how anyone 
has the means or the understanding to judge anyone else, let alone, HPB, who 
devoted this past life, to provide us with the means of clearing up the mess 
we, ourselves, have created.

Cass



"M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:

Yeah..
Perhaps we all need to widen our historical horizon a tiny bit.
I just read this one...
http://theosophy.org/tlodocs/hpb/NotesOnSomeAryan-ArhatEsotericTenets.htm

"
II.

The Vedas, Brâhmanism, and along with these Sanskrit, were importations
into what we now regard as India. They were never indigenous to its soil.
There was a time when the ancient nations of the West included under the
generic name of India many of the countries of Asia now classified under
other names. There was an Upper, a Lower, and a Western India, even during
the comparatively late period of Alexander; and Persia, Iran, is called
Western India in some ancient classics, and the countries now named Tibet,
Mongolia, and Great Tartary were considered as forming part of India. When
we say, therefore, that India has civilized the world and was the Alma Mater
of the civilizations, arts and sciences of all other nations (Babylonia, and
perhaps even Egypt, included), we mean archaic, prehistoric India, India of
the time when the great Gobi was a sea, and the lost Atlantis formed part of
an unbroken continent which began at the Himâlayas and ran down over
Southern India, Ceylon, Java, to far-away Tasmania.


III.

To ascertain such disputed questions [as to whether or not the Tibetan
adepts are acquainted with the "esoteric doctrine taught by the residents of
the sacred Island"], we have to look into and study well the Chinese sacred
and historical records a people whose era begins nearly 4,600 years back
(2697 B.C.). A people so accurate by whom some of the most important
'-inventions" of modern Europe and its so much boasted modern science (such
as the compass, gunpowder, porcelain, paper, printing, etc.), were
anticipated, known, and practised thousands of years before these were
rediscovered by the Europeans ought to receive some trust for their records.

> From Lao-tze down to Hiouen-Thsang their literature is filled with
allusions and references to that Island and the wisdom of the Himâlayan
adepts. In the Catena of Buddhist Scriptures from the Chinese, by the Rev.
Samuel Beal, there is a chapter "On the Tian-Ta'i School of Buddhism " (pp.
244-258), which our opponents ought to read. Translating the rules of that
most celebrated and holy school and sect in China founded by Chin-che-chay,
called the wise one, in the year 575 of our era, on coming to the sentence,
"That which relates to the one garment (seamless) worn by the Great Teachers
of the Snowy Mountains, the school of the Haimavatas" (p. 256), the European
translator places after it a sign of interrogation, as well he may. The
statistics of the school of the Haimavatas or of our Himâlayan Brotherhood,
are not to be found in the General Census Records of India. Further, Mr.
Beal translates a rule relating to "the great professors of the higher order
who live in mountain depths remote from men," the Âranyakas, or hermits.

So, with respect to the traditions concerning this Island, and apart
from the (to them) historical records of it preserved in the Chinese and
Tibetan Sacred Books, the legend is alive to this day among the people of
Tibet. The fair Island is no more, but the country where it once bloomed
remains there still, and the spot is well known to some of the "great
teachers of the snowy mountains," however much convulsed and changed its
topography may have been by the awful cataclysm. Every seventh year these
teachers are believed to assemble in Scham-bha-la, the "happy land."
According to the general belief it is situated in the north-west of Tibet.
Some place it within the unexplored central regions, inaccessible even to
the fearless nomadic tribes; others hem it in between the range of the
Gangdisri Mountains and the northern edge of the Gobi Desert, south and
north, and the more populated regions of Khoondooz and Kashmir, of the
Gya-Pheling (British India) and China, west and east, which affords to the
curious mind a pretty large latitude to locate it in. Others still place it
between Namur Nur and the Kuen-Lun Mountains but one and all firmly believe
in Scham-bha-la, and speak of it as a fertile, fairy-like land, once an
island, now an oasis of incomparable beauty, the place of meeting of the
inheritors of the esoteric wisdom of the god-like inhabitants of the
legendary Island."


These continous exchanges in the below and elsewhere of who was first - "The
chicken or the egg?" -
reminds me of the Seekers who are mistaking the content for being the
container.
And who like a good dispute more than they do good wisdom.
<:-)
(Me and my egg-head. Smile.)

Wise theosophical Teaching has to be performed according to time place,
people and circumstances.
If a teacher who has passed away was a non-vegtarian and a smoker,
there could be a social reason for that.
If a teacher was a vegetarian and a non-smoker, who all in all promoted
an emotional almost non-AtmaVidya-like doctrine, there could be reasons for
that as well.

What teaching, which would be proper to promote today might be something
quite different - it depends upon
the audience - and yes - time, even timesequences, place, people and
circumstances - and so on.

And when we just keep retelling the same story - by quoting dead authors -
the Seekers know, that they get a second best, - and that this is not
as real as a first hand account.
The fruits yielded are because of that somewhat small in size.
We will have to face these facts.



from
M. Sufilight


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anand Gholap"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 1:36 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re:Annie Besant was real founder of the TS


> Olcott and Blavatsky were technically founders of the TS. However when
> they were in-charge there was not much acceptance of Theosophy nor was
> it internationally recognized organization. Blavatsky was told not to
> look into administration. She wrote some 3-4 books. Compare it with
> Annie Besant's work. Besant wrote some 300 books, she was incharge of
> ES and administration of the Theosophical Society. Under her
> leadership
> Theosophical Society became truly international organization with
> recognition in many countries. Vast high quality literature was
> written
> when she was leader which was appreciated around the world. Blavatsky
> became famous not because of her writing but because Annie Besant made
> TS internationally reputed organization and Blavatsky was technically
> founder of it. So little fame which Blavatsky has is to much extent
> due
> to work of Annie Besant.
> So although Annie Besant did not sign papers when TS was incorporated,
> practically Annie Besant was founder of the Theosophical Society.
> Anand Gholap
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links



Yahoo! Groups Links








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