Theos-Talk Archives (April 2005 Message tt01807)

Dont you think it is about time Dallas, that someone, for future theosophists sake , drew a road map of all the various theosophical terms and their principles in relation to all authors. This would save an enormous amount of confusion, as, after, 20 years, I still need to rush around to research on what each individual author is referring to. This is especially difficult in regard to the Fohat, Jiva, Malaprakriti, Prana, Aether.  
I am not knowledgeable enough to do this and cannot rely entirely on my judgement but I sure wish someone would. I would certainly be happy to pay for this type of book.
 
Thankyou for the excellent work you have done on this, but when it comes through an email the editing process needs order and this will take an enormous amount of time.
 
As it is 100 degrees today (for autumn we are having a really indian summer), I may be able to get to it, as I am remaining indoors, however, if I manage to get to it, I would like to email it to you or someone for verification.
Regards
Cass

"W.Dallas TenBroeck" <dalval14@earthlink.net> wrote:



Apl 27 2005

RE: CROSS BREEDING EXPERIMENTS (contd)


Dear C:

Much of our trouble in making exchange of ideas is nomenclature.

However, THEOSOPHY by the time the SECRET DOCTRINE was published and 

The OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY (have you read or seen a copy of this? -- available
on line at

phx-ult-lodge.org/ 

E-MAIL: phxultlodge@hotmail.com 

[Also available in Spanish translation: 

"El Oceano del Theosofia"]

----------------------------------

Mentally, as I read what others write, I make transpositions and check to
see if the logic and meanings in and behind the words is correct (?) .

Please look below at notes I introduced to the side of your TABLE 


Looking at your tale I believe that "etheric" was substituted for "Prana
/Jiva" the individual "Life" Principle -- which is drawn individually from
the ocean of universal life: JIVA. [ see S D I 157 table of Principles,
S D II 596 ]

PRÂNA (Sk.). Life-Principle ; the breath of Life. 
PRÂNAMÂYA KOSHA (Sk.). The vehicle of Prâna, life, or the Linga Sarîra a
Vedantic term. T. Glos 260

JIVA (Sk.). Life, as the Absolute; the Monad also or “Atma-Buddhi”. T.
Glos. 165

The reason the ASTRAL BODY is placed next t the PHYSICAL BODY is because it
forms the electro-magnetic pattern body or a kind of lattice whereon all the
physical atoms and molecules are accreted -- which accounts for the ability
of the physical body to repair itself when injured and to retain its
characteristic form without too much alteration during life.


ASTRAL BODY, OR ASTRAL “DOUBLE”. The ethereal counterpart or shadow of man
or animal. The Linga Sharira, the “Doppelgäinger”. The reader must not
confuse it with the ASTRAL SOUL, another name for the lower Manas, or
Kama-Manas so-called, the reflection of the HIGHER EGO.


"The ASTRAL BODY is made up of matter of a very fine texture...and has a
great tensile strength, so that it changes but little during a
lifetime...[it] possesses [an] immense strength, and at the same time
possesses an elasticity permitting its extension to a considerable distance.
It is flexible, plastic, extensible and strong. The matter of which it is
composed is electrical and magnetic in its essence...Having been through a
vast period of evolution and undergone purifying processes of an
incalculable number, its nature has been refined to a degree far beyond the
gross physical elements we see and touch with the physical eye and hand.

The astral body is the guiding model for the physical one, and all the other
kingdoms have the same astral model. Vegetables, minerals, and animals have
the ethereal double, that this theory is the only one which will answer the
questions how it is that the seed produces its own kind and all sentient
beings bring forth their like." OCEAN 39-40


"The ASTRAL BODY has within it the real organs of the outer sense organs.
In it are the sight, hearing, power to smell, and the sense of touch. It
has a complete system of nerves and arteries of its own for the conveyance
of the astral fluid which is to that body as the blood is to the physical.
It is the real personal man. There are located the subconscious perception
and the latent memory. which the hypnotizers of the day are dealing with and
being baffled by." OCEAN 42 



ASTRAL LIGHT (OCCULT) The invisible region that surrounds our globe, as it
does every other, and corresponding as the second Principle of Kosmos (the
third being Life, of which it is the vehicle) to the Linga Sharira or the
Astral Double in man. A subtle Essence visible only to a clairvoyant eye,
and the lowest but one (viz., the earth), of the Seven Akâsic or Kosmic
Principles. Eliphas Levi calls it the great Serpent and the Dragon from
which radiates on Humanity every evil influence. This is so; but why not add
that the Astral Light gives out nothing but what it has received; that it is
the great terrestrial crucible, in which the vile emanations of the earth
(moral and physical) upon which the Astral Light is fed, are all converted
into their subtlest essence, and radiated back intensified, thus becoming
epidemics— moral, psychic and physical. Finally, the Astral Light is the
same as the Sidereal Light of Paracelsus and other Hermetic philosophers.
“Physically, it is the ether of modern science. Metaphysically, and in its
spiritual, or occult sense, ether is a great deal more than is often
imagined. In occult physics, and alchemy, it is well demonstrated to enclose
within its shoreless waves not only Mr. Tyndall’s ‘promise and potency of
every quality of life’, but also the realization of the potency of every
quality of spirit. Alchemists and Hermetists believe that their astral, or
sidereal ether, besides the above properties of sulphur, and white and red
magnesia, or magnes, is the anima mundi, the workshop of Nature and of all
the Kosmos, spiritually, as well as physically. The ‘grand magisterium’
asserts itself in the phenomenon of mesmerism, in the ‘levitation’ of human
and inert objects; and may be called the ether from its spiritual aspect.
The designation astral is ancient, and was used by some of the
Neo-platonists, although it is claimed by some that the word was coined by
the Martinists. Porphyry describes the celestial body which is always joined
with the soul as ‘immortal, luminous, and star-like’. The root of this word
may be found, perhaps, in the Scythic Aist-aer—which means star, or the
Assyrian Istar, which, according to Burnouf has the same sense.” (Isis
Unveiled.)
T. Glos 37-8


--------------------------------------------------

SEVENFOLD NATURE OF LIFE


Seven-fold Man and His Vehicles in STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS SD I p
157]

=========================================================================
Classification in Vedantic
Classification in
"Esoteric Buddhism" Classification
Taraka Raja Yoga
=========================================================================
1 STHULA SARIRA ANNAMAYA KOSA + 
[Food made ¦ 
body] ¦
STHULOPADHI 
+ | [
Jagrat ]
2 PRANA (Life) . | ¦ [
awake in the body ]
| PRANAMAYA KOSA | 
+ [Sutratma] +
3 Vehicle of Prana | 
LINGA SARIRA or |
Astral body +


4 KAMA RUPA . +
| 
| 
¦ 
+ Volitions and¦ | MANOMAYA KOSA +
¦ FEELINGS ¦ Mind sheath] |
SUKSHMOPADHI
¦ + |
[Swapna]
5 MIND ¦ ¦ [
the dream
¦ ¦
state ]
¦ VIGNANAM VIGNANAMAYA ¦ 
+ [Knowledge] KOSA + 



6 Spiritual Soul . ANANDAMAYA KOSA KARANOPADHI
BUDDHI [Contemplative, [ Sushupti]
[blissful state]
[ deep sleep ]


7 ATMA . . . ATMA . . . ATMA
[
Turiya ] [Upeksha]


=====================================================================


CORRESPONDENCE : 7 COSMIC & 7 HUMAN "PRINCIPLES."
[ from: SD
II p. 596]

================================================================
HUMAN aspects or COSMIC aspects or
Principles Principles
================================================================

1. Universal Spirit (Atma) The Unmanifested Logos 

2. Spiritual Soul {Buddhi) Universal (latent) Ideation

3 Human Soul, Mind (Manas) Universal (or Cosmic) active
Intelligence 


4. Animal Soul (Kama-Rupa) Cosmic Chaotic energy

5. Astral Body (Linga-Sarira) Astral Ideation, reflecting 
terrestrial things.

6. Life Essence (Prana) Life Essence or Energy

7. Body (Sthula Sarira) The Earth.


===============================================================


HUMAN PRINCIPLES


================================================================
Sanskrit Exoteric Explanatory
Terms Meaning
================================================================


LOWER QUATERNARY


a) Rupa or Physical Is the vehicle of all the other
Sthula-Sarira body "principles" during life.


b) Prana Life or Necessary only to a) c) d), and 
Vital the functions of the lower
Manas,
principle which embrace all those limited to
the (physical) brain.


c) Linga- Astral body The Double, the phantom body.
Sharira


d) Kama rupa The seat of This is the center of the animal
animal - man, where lies the line of 
desires and demarcation which separates the
passions. mortal man from the immortal
entity.


---------------------------------------------------------------


UPPER IMPERISHABLE TRIAD


e) Manas --a Mind. Intelligence The future state and the Karmic 
dual prin- : destiny of man depend on
whether
ciple in its which is the Manas gravitates more
downward to
function higher human Kama-rupa, the seat of animal 
mind, whose passions, or upwards to Buddhi,

light, or rad- the Spiritual Ego. In the latter
iation links case, the higher consciousness of

the MONAD, for the individual spiritual aspir-

the lifetime ations of mind (Manas), assimil-

to the mortal ating Buddhi, are absorbed by it

man. and form the Ego, which goes into
Devachanic bliss.


f) Buddhi The Spiritual The vehicle of pure universal Spirit
Soul


g) Atma Spirit One with the Absolute as its
radiation.

[From: Key to Theosophy, pp., 91-2]

============================================

Best wishes,


Dallas

============================


-----Original Message-----
From: Cass Silva
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:32 AM
To: Subject: Re: : CROSS BREEDING EXPERIMENTS Atlantis revisited


Dear Dallas,

Cannot get to this today as I have enjoyed a lovely lunch and wine with
friends, but will get back to the office tomorrow.
Cass

Cass Silva wrote:

Dear Dal

I think your suggestion on get back to Blavatsky, is excellent. Although an
exhausting work, it would simplify for me, if I had a cross refererence on
what HPB's word usage and the "new words" used by later exponents.

As a personal example, I was told by a theosophist that the Etheric Body is
the ethereal body of the Physical, and it is which the Faith Healers of the
Phillippines work on to cure disease. Hence, no blood. At death it hovers
around the physical body, disintegrating at the same rate as the physical
body.

Then I read, of the linga sarira, and the different versions of what the
Astral Body is.


I was told the seven septenary nature of man was


Cass DAL SUGGESTIONS BELOW to reconcile

------------------
----------------------------------------------------------

The Physical [ physical form ]

The Etheric -- [ possibly PRANA / JIVA ? ]

The Astral -- [Physical is based on astral patterns ]

The Lower Mental [Kama-Manas -- desire-mind]

The Higher Mental [Buddhi-Manas -- wise-Mind ]

The Causal Body [ BUDDHI - wisdom ]

The Egoic Body [ ATMA ? a "Ray" of Universal ONE SPIRIT in every human
]



Perhaps this is what is causing confusion.

Cass

==============================================


"W.Dallas TenBroeck" wrote:

4 26 2005



RE: CROSS BREEDING EXPERIMENTS Atlantis revisited


Dear Cass:

I am trying to answer you or give some references that will help. But I can
see we may be frustrated to some extent. 

Neither of us may be scholars, but, as students, we seek explanations and
apply when possible what we understand on the basis of the universal laws of
analogy and correspondence offered to us as a basis. 

HPB has used both words: "astral" and "etheric" but not always as synonyms.

In the T. Glos she says: 


ASTRAL BODY, OR ASTRAL “DOUBLE”. The ethereal counterpart or shadow of man
or animal. The Linga Sharira, the “Doppelgäinger”. The reader must not
confuse it with the ASTRAL SOUL, another name for the lower Manas, or
Kama-Manas so-called, the reflection of the HIGHER EGO." Glos 37


ETHER. Students are but too apt to confuse this with Akâsa and with Astral
Light. 

It is neither, in the sense in which ether is described by physical Science.


Ether is a material agent, though hitherto undetected by any physical
apparatus; whereas Akâsa is a distinctly spiritual agent, identical, in one
sense, with the Anima Mundi, while the Astral Light is only the seventh and
highest principle of the terrestrial atmosphere, as undetectable as Akâsa
and real Ether, because it is something quite on another plane. 

The seventh principle of the earth’s atmosphere, as said, the Astral Light,
is only the second on the Cosmic scale. The scale of Cosmic Forces,
Principles and Planes, of Emanations—on the metaphysical—and Evolutions—on
the physical plane—is the Cosmic Serpent biting its own tail, the Serpent
reflecting the Higher, and reflected in its turn by the lower Serpent. 

The Caduceus explains the mystery, and the four-fold Dodecahedron on the
model of which the universe is said by Plato to have been built by the
manifested Logos—synthesized by the unmanifested First-Born—yields
geometrically the key to Cosmogony and its microcosmic reflection—our
Earth." Glos 115-6

----------------------------

DTB

I can see this alteration of nomenclature is caused by an historical
divergence of choosing as basic certain texts or words that may not always
with the original writings and teachings of THEOSOPHY. 

[ I see that great efforts have / are being made, for instance, 1800 or so
years later, to get back to original texts of the Gospels -- same problem
--but you can see the process speeded up in this matter of Theosophical
texts. Shortly after HPB's death instead of intensive study, those who
desired to bring in masses of people to the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY began the
process of "improvement, altering, simplifying, making more popular,
etc..." the result is what you see now.]

You say:

"The word "astral" is apt to cause confusion for some people. "Ethereal"
has been suggested as being a preferable word, and is used in place of
"astral" by many writers. P.120 "The Divine Plan [G. Barbarouka]."

I do know that the SECRET DOCTRINE was written by HPB under the Masters'
supervision. HPB was Master's messenger, and they vouched for her writings.
It is for this position of primacy that I rely, and on such writings as are
consistent with it. (I am sure you have read the historical certificates
given on that book by the Masters to Dr. Hubbe-Schleiden? I can send you a
copy. They are in PATH, Vol. 8, p. 1-3.) 

I have no idea why the writer of the "The DIVINE PLAN" altered the
nomenclature. Unfortunately he is no longer with us to be asked. 

All students can follow the SECRET DOCTRINE (original). Obviously not all
students are familiar with all the subsequent books written, and words
chosen to indicate sub-divisions in the time / past event program of
evolution.

I am sorry, I strongly feel the only answers or suggestions that which you
and I both can trust, ought to be based on ORIGINAL THEOSOPHY and its
terminology. It may take a while to unravel this.

I do not know how to alter my presentation based on something written after
HPB's death by students who used their own changes in nomenclature, and with
which I am unfamiliar. 

It is precisely those changes that have caused trouble for all of us. It is
no fault of yours, is my guess, as enthusiastically you found something in
that book that cleared up many (but not all) problems for you ?

However, if we desire to study and make use of THEOSOPHY together, then why
not consider the important bridge of a basic unity of texts and words used
by HPB there that solves such problems? 

Let me express it as: "its' back to Blavatsky." The other way (trying to
understand precisely what another writer meant) is lengthy and very
argumentative. The writing of a later writer (including myself, please) has
to be analysed, and if necessary, refuted. In my work for the past 60 +
years I have used HPB and the Masters' writings. I have found them
consistent.

The writings of students (obviously, including my own) can make changes and
throw the whole philosophy off track. It is for this reason that I use
quotations taken from the original teachers when possible.

I know it gives difficulty to some, as you observe. So there we are:

As to your tentative conclusions. I would say that what was possible in the
early stages of evolution on our Earth has changed. 

There is a statement that in this ROUND FOUR, in GLOBE D (the 4th) the
evolutionary wave passing through the first 4 ROOT-RACES in this GLOBE D,
recapitulates the physiological processes Nature provided in the first FOUR
ROUNDS.

----------------------------------


CROSS BREEDING and hybridization depend on the astral laws and
affinities. 

I find some of these defined in the S D : see S D II 192, 197-9,
779-80; 


------------------


A quick review of the METHODS OF REPRODUCTION 

is given in S D II 166-7.


It says: 

"Moreover, the progressive order of the methods of reproduction, as unveiled
by science, is a brilliant confirmation of esoteric Ethnology. It is only
necessary to tabulate the data in order to prove our assertion. (Cf.
especially Schmidt's "Doctrine of Descent and Darwinism," p. 39, et. seq.,
and Laing's "A Modern Zoroastrian," pp. 102-111.) 

1. FISSION: — 


(a) As seen in the division of the homogeneous speck of protoplasm, known as
Moneron or Amoeba, into two. 


(b) As seen in the division of the nucleated cell, in which the cell-nucleus
splits into two sub-nuclei, which either develop within the original
cell-wall or burst it, and multiply outside as independent entities. (Cf.,
the First Root-Race.) 


II. BUDDING: — 

A small portion of the parent structure swells out at the surface and
finally parts company, growing to the size of the original organism; e.g.,
many vegetables, the sea-anemone, etc. (Cf., the Second Root-Race.) 


III. SPORES: — 

A single cell thrown off by the parent organism, which develops into a
multicellular organism reproducing the features of the latter, e.g.,
bacteria and mosses. 


IV. Intermediate HERMAPHRODITISM: — 

Male and female organs inhering in the same individual; e.g., the majority
of plants, worms, and snails, etc.; allied to budding. 

(Cf. Second and early Third Root-Races.) 


V. TRUE SEXUAL UNION: — 


(Cf. later Third Root-Race.) S D II 167-8

----------------------------


"We now come to an important point with regard to the double evolution of
the human race. , or the spiritual Dhyanis, had become "intellectual"
through their contact with matter, because they had already reached, during
previous cycles of incarnation, that degree of intellect which enabled them
to become independent and self-conscious entities, on this plane of matter.
They were reborn only by reason of Karmic effects. 

They entered those who were "ready," and became the Arhats, or sages,
alluded to above. This needs explanation. 

It does not mean that Monads entered forms in which other Monads already
were. 

They were "Essences," "Intelligences," and conscious spirits; entities
seeking to become still more conscious by uniting with more developed
matter. Their essence was too pure to be distinct from the universal
essence; but their "Egos," or Manas (since they are called Manasaputra, born
of "Mahat," or Brahma) had to pass through earthly human experiences to
become all-wise, and be able to start on the returning ascending cycle. 

The Monads are not discrete principles, limited or conditioned, but rays
from that one universal absolute Principle. The entrance into a dark room
through the same aperture of one ray of sunlight following another will not
constitute two rays, but one ray intensified. It is not in the course of
natural law that man should become a perfect septenary being, before the
seventh race in the seventh Round. Yet he has all these principles latent in
him from his birth. Nor is it part of the evolutionary law that the Fifth
principle (Manas), should receive its complete development before the Fifth
Round. 

All such prematurely developed intellects (on the spiritual plane) in our
Race are abnormal; they are those whom we call the "Fifth-Rounders." Even in
the coming seventh Race, at the close of this Fourth Round, while our four
lower principles will be fully developed, that of Manas will be only
proportionately so. This limitation, however, refers solely to the spiritual
development. The intellectual, on the physical plane, was reached during the
Fourth Root-Race. Thus, those who were "half ready," who received "but a
spark," constitute the average humanity which has to acquire its

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