Theos-Talk Archives (April 2005 Message tt01493)

Hi Dallas
In response to your posting

"W.Dallas TenBroeck" <dalval14@earthlink.net> wrote:


Apl 22 2005

Dear C:

Every human being is a seven-fold DHYANI (Wise-one) in potential. 

C: Yes I know

We are born with a knowledge of laws of karma and of right from wrong. As
children and youths this takes a while to become fully grasped. Our
parental guidance is supposed to assist in this. So too in the "spiritual
life" everyone has an inner "tutor" - his own HIGHER SELF - that does this.
Can it make itself heard - that is the significant question? 

C: Yes, my inner voice has been with me since childhood. In fact it leapt out of my body.


We embody all the potentials of the entire Universe. True or false?

C: Absolutely, we are gods in the becoming.

If true, a real Sage who is utterly harmless and benevolent, can alone be
trusted with the "secrets" of Nature. "Nature" (as a word-idea) is only a
synonym for Deity or God, and it certainly transcends our small ideas of the
singularity and special nature of our little Earth and of our present
physical selves. 

C: These secrets are available not only to Sages, but to Fakirs. I believe the dark side can take a 3rd or 4th initiation on their path, which gives them the secrets of nature. The Atlanteans proved this.

All of us -- He/she, etc. of any race, or place, or time, KNOWS right from
wrong because of the BUDDHI principle (WISDOM) interior to every one of us.
We call it the VOICE OF CONSCIENCE. It is the same with everyone, it comes
from the interior HIGHER SELF - the Spirit. Spirit is ubiquitous - present
everywhere. So to are the forms of matter needed by all to incarnate into. 

C: Generally, I agree, but there are also those who have no concept of right or wrong.

Our early education tends to place "God" outside of us, rather than its
actuality of being EVERYWHERE - hence, and primarily, it is INSIDE of us, as
the closest access to GOD that we all have -- and share -- as it is the
same "God" for all. 

C: I have had two separate instances in my life, where it was shown to me that God was within and not without. I left, the personal god of catholocism at 14 years old, and have never felt the desire to return to the external god they worship.

Why do we excuse our acting as less than gods? What are we afraid of? Loss
of respect, wealth, health, family, and so on? [Look at the story of
Jesus - he risked and maintained being "different." 

C: I do not believe that my acting is ungodlike, however, as HPB says, the spiritual path is not for the fainthearted. It is also a condition of probation that while on the spiritual path we have a need to defend ourselves against attack, these are small lessons that we learn in the physical to help us in the non physical, when the attacks are more insidious.

A more modern example 60, 70 years back was Gandhi - the less he "owned,"
the more powerful was his impact as an impartial, independent and moral
example on his people and on everyone he dealt with. 

C: I have shared everything I have ever had with those that I loved, even those that I didnt. eg. I reared my children single handedly, yet still chose to divide my monetary assets and belongings 50/50 with my ex partner. He liberated India, but could not unite it.

It the history of our present THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT, we have HPB as an
example of the same kind of devotion that places no value on the "world's"
opinions and regard. In everything she writes or of what is said of her
this emerges.

C: I do not agree, HPB had no problem in defending or attacking those in the world she had no regard for, she lay the blame where the blame was necessary.

The "Master," in all cases, and ourselves, is the "inner GOD -- ATMA." 

C: Agree, but as St Augustine said, make me a good boy, but not yet. My intention is to defend self and others that are being ridiculed for no reason that the ridiculers pleasure and delight in emotional abuse.

The VOICE OF CONSCIENCE is that protection we all have immediately - before
we chose to act. Do we listen? . But, who wants to hear or understand this
as a fact ? 

C: The voice of conscience is not always about turning the other cheek. My conscience is clear. The white brotherhood is not about the meek inheriting the earth, do they not stand up against evil forces that are trying to destroy us?


That "protection is never withdrawn." 

If we should deserve the company and attention of a "Master of Wisdom," then
don't you think it is because we are doing work in our world which they can
approve of on the basis of universal and impersonal spiritual principles?
And is such work not for general benefit ?

C: The Masters of Wisdom look across the ocean of mankind, and if they see a glimmer, a spark of light, they watch and wait to see if the soul could be approaching the time when it is turning away from self, to turn towards others. The spiritual path requires strength of character and fortitude to take the fast track. Those who are not ready, those who need others to think for them, those who are spiritually lazy will wait and evolve with the tide of humanity at that point in their evolution.

The various religions, and so called occult schools, thrive on separating
Man (the human MIND - MANAS - the "chooser") from BUDDHI (wisdom) and the
true DEITY or GOD that is in ourselves (as in all else) -- I mean the ATMA
- THE ONE SPIRIT. They perpetuate ignorance, and because the average person
is fearful, they pretend to have special powers to dissipate the karma of
bad past choices and the certainty of exact retribution - which we all KNOW
will inevitably come to us. We all know this. No escape. No priest can
buy our pardon! [As a confidence-man, Bishop Eusebeus did a tremendous job
on Emperor Constantine. ]

C: Humble I may not be, but fearful, I think not, I take my karma on the chin. I do not need to confess my sins to another man in a priests garment, my master knows my sins without judgement, penance or condemnation.

Now if they had such powers why would they sell them ? No one asks that. So
the sly and crafty ever prey on the ignorant and the credulous. And they
defend themselves from probing inquiries and any revealing of the true state
of affairs.

C: Why are you putting these questions to me. I am in no rush to develop psychic powers. When the time is right, they will be available to me. I do not , nor have, nor will, ever pay anyone for spiritual advancement. That act in itself tells me the person who is offering it, is a sham.

You mention "temptations." We created these in the past by wrong and bad
choices that were selfish and designed to provide special benefits for
ourselves at the expense of others. It was a repudiation of the universal
SPIRIT and of the brotherhood that is implicit in all honest and sincere,
virtuous relationships.

C: How did you miss the point? I was referring to the temptation that every initiate must face. 1st Initiation is the mystical nativity. The 2nd Initiation, three fetters to be overcome. Doubt, Superstition, Non Separation. When these fetters are overcome, psychic powers develop quickly. 3rd Initiation - Self identify with God is known. The transfiguration. It is, I am told, at this or the 4th initiation, the disciple is tempted by "the left side". The 4th Initiation - one worthy of divine power. If we can believe, the ancient writings, it was at this initiation that Jesus was tempted. On obtaining this initiation, the christ soul descends into Avichi and attempts to rescue souls, by, I believe, using a blessing (which I imagine has something to do with magnetism). 5th Initiation, No more to learn, human existence comes to an end. 6th Initiation, Chohan, 7th Inititation, Maha Chohan. This information was given to me by my teacher (a housewife who lived in the same street
as me, so we can never judge people by their appearances). As HPB says, NO CROSS NO CROWN.



Look at the exchanges we read over this network. How many of them reflect
the use and consideration of virtue as an essential? We have almost
forgotten how to define virtue and most of us have a tendency to scoff and
scorn it. Is that true and useful humor?

C: By virtue, are you referring to chastity or moral goodness? This labelled accusation, without evidence is not being virtuous on your part. Doesnt anyone have the right to defend their integrity when it is being attacked by, as you say, scoffers and scorners in a group. Who in this group, has had "confrontations" with more than one newcomer? Not me. I have had one confrontation, with one person, held my silence, until my moral integrity was questioned, and my name belittled. You can call it as you see it, I will call it as I see it.


Is that not a very severe "temptation?" 

How is it that this fact is so difficult to understand ?

C: Perhaps Dallas, you would be so kind as to inform me exactly what you implicitly mean by this statement. 

You speak of "fore warning and knowledge." Where is this lacking? It is
all around us and within. We all know far more than we practice. But
usually we have not organized it, nor have we taken stock of what we know
and can do, when we will to do it. 

C: Fore warning and knowledge of the negative aspects are part of the spiritual journey. There are dark forces operating in the world through the astral plane, my search is the search for understanding of their modus operandi. "For since the Logos (or God) is the aggregate of that once divine Host accused of having fallen, it would follow that the Logos and Satan are one." SD515

Look at most of us, brought up in the Christian tradition. Do we know what
JESUS said and taught? Do we understand and ask about that? Do we seek to
apply the virtues he exemplified? If not, why not ? Why do we accept
anyone else's views? If we can read, then independently studying the SERMON
ON THE MOUNT ought to open our eyes (mentally). 

C: "The Christian virtues inculcated by Jesus in the sermon on the mount are nowhere exemplified in the Christian world. "The Buddhist ascetics and Indian Fakirs seem almost the only ones that inculcate and practice them. Meanwhile the vices which coarse-mouthed slanderers have attributed to Paganism, are current everywhere among Christian Fathers and Christian Churches" HPB.

C: "The language of Jesus is unequivocal; it implies not only rebellion but defiance of the Mosaic "Lord God".HPB. Surely my higher self has the right to defend itself against the mosaic lord god of others.

But usually our whole life has been one where dependence and trust in
"authority" has been instilled in us. Why? 

C: Perhaps so that we can learn to depend and trust in our own authority.

I observe everywhere (and I have travelled around the world a couple of
times) that a knowledge of right from wrong is taken in every country and
be every religious group, to be universal in matters of custom, behaviour,
and "law." Why ? No one ever reads all the statutes before crossing a
frontier, and even so, how many would remember or honestly apply them? 

C: I too, and I have lived in the Far East and in the Middle East. Where is Right and Wrong in your argument against HPB - v CWL and Adyar? Where is your sermon on the mount on this subject?

But this question had best be answered by introspection. No one can take on
the burden of answering for another, who, in any case, is always and forever
a FREE CHOOSER. If, for instance, we would say we are Christians, then why
do we not live (or try to) and work like Jesus did? 

C: You may call yourself a Christian, their religion and their dogma has brought the world to the sad place it is. Christ is as much with me as he is with any christian.


Of course the same applies to all other religions equally - and the
important thing (which anyone can discover) is that at their base every
religion teaches identical morals and virtues - what has made for a lot of
trouble after the original Teacher has left the scene, are the various kinds
of rites, customs and rituals which priestcrafts have devised. It is the
old "Divide and Rule" plot. 

C: Let's not forget who provoked this subtle but fierce attack against me, it smells a little of the Divide and Rule concept itself. It is not the wisdom of Solomon to take sides, which obviously you have done.

THEOSOPHY teaches self-discipline through independent understanding.

C: Yes it does.

The best protection is a simple idea, to be applied individually:

CEASE FROM EVIL. DO GOOD. 

C: This is ridiculous, you sound like a priest giving a sermon to the sinner!!

THIS IS THE LAW ETERNAL.

It will be found to include, as a necessary basis, the fact that we are
immortals (as spiritual entities using physical bodies temporarily). We
Reincarnate life after life. 

C: Yes

The Universe is GOD in its entirety - God is NOT(as a being) separate from
any part of it, nor is there any DEVIL (as a being) in which evil is
focussed. 

C: When did I say I believed in a Devil? Where are you coming from. 

Omnipresence, omniscience and omnipotence are the given qualities of the
DIVINITY - GOD. If we apply those uniformly, then all divisive and selfish
motives vanish.

C: Divisive and selfish? Who? 

Yet, in a strange way our selfishness and desire for ease and personal
isolation from harm and stress, has created for each of us an image (and the
fearful impression in terms of torture) of a terrible being. 

C: Your image of me is so inaccurate, but you are providing me with an insight into yours right now.

It is a psychic reflection from the astral light [some have called it a "Dweller"]
of what we might look like to a Sage who is able to see into the depth of
both our minds and hearts - just as we can do when we meditate. [Sounds
like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.]

C: Which dweller are you talking about? "The Christians call them "devils" "imps of Satan" and like characteristic names. They are nothing of the kind, but simply creatures of ethereal matter, irresponsible, and neither good nor bad, unless influenced by a superior intelligence." HPB. "certain maleficent astral Doubles of defunct persons." or

Sir Bulwer-Lytton's dweller. "the imbodied karmic consequences or results of the man's past, haunting the threshholds which the initiant or initiate must pass before he can advance or progress into a higher degree of initiation - the imbodied quasi-human astral haunting parts of the constitution thrown of in past incarnations by the man who now has to face them and overcome them. The initiant must face these old "selves" of himself and CONQUER or fail. In a specific sense they may be truly called the kama-rupas of the man's past incarnations arising out of the records in the astral light left there by the "old" man of the "new" man who now is."?

Well we all have to face that Dweller, you included. And as you can see another step in the process of initiation.


THEOSOPHY teaches us we (the MANAS-MIND) are both the Sage and the "sinner."
We are united forever and it is up to us (as the free-mind-chooser) to live
and direct our living to either side of this strange and terrible equation.

C: The Sage was a sinner before he became a Saint.

I must say I was totally floored by this unchristian attempts to demoralise me. Another test, I guess.

Best wishes, 

Cass
==================================


-----Original Message-----
From: Of Cass Silva
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 4:37 PM
To: Subject: Re: Sorcery and problems on the Path


Dear Mark,

My understanding is that the disciple, when on the path, is protected by the
master, until the time, he must face the "temptation" himself. However, the
initiate, when on the path proper, has been armed with fore-warning and
knowledge? The choice is his.
Regards
Cass






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