Theos-Talk Archives (April 2005 Message tt00655)

Jerry,
There is huge difference in social condition here and the US, France, 
Greece etc. Here in my city there is Rajanish Ashram which has almost 
Californian culture and many other conservative organizations. Each 
organization has unique philosophy and yogic practice which they 
follow. Atleast 15 big organizations and many more small spiritual, 
yoga organizations are there in the city. But interesting thing is 
follower of one organization does not attack beliefs or 
personalities of other organizations. Every person respects others' 
rights to follow philosophy, organization they like. So it is much 
easier. Almost same condition is there in whole of India. Governmet 
also does not fear that any organization could be subversive. 
It would be interesting to know why such big difference is there in 
social condition here and elsewhere. 
Anand Gholap

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@c...> 
wrote:
> Anand,
> 
> If I may step into this conversation--I attended a New Religions 
> conference in Salt Lake City, Utah a couple of years ago. There 
was a 
> very interesting presentation about the deep suspicion and distrust 
some 
> European governments have concerning minority religions and so-
called 
> new age groups. The Theosophical Society is on this list of 
suspicious 
> groups. The speaker specifically mentioned France and Greece as 
two 
> countries which are particularly problematic in this matter. As 
for 
> Greece, the Greek Orthodox church is very much part of their 
national 
> identity. To be anything else, would make you, well, different. To 
not 
> be Christian at all, would make you VERY different. The speaker 
> mentioned that the Islamic population in Greece fought for years to 
> build a Mosque in Athens. Because Athens is an international city, 
they 
> finally got permission, but only to build one mosque in Athens. 
> 
> In France, the situation is in some ways even worse. Groups such 
as 
> Eckankar and ISKCON try to rent conference halls for pubic 
conventions, 
> and the Government steps in, contacts the owner of the conference 
hall 
> and asks: "Do you realized that your conference hall is scheduled 
to 
> host a subversive sect?" The conferences are immediately 
canceled. 
> 
> The Theosophical Society in France has a main building in the Camps 
de 
> Mars, a short walk from the Eiffel tower. That building has been 
there 
> since 1914, but still there is a great deal of suspicion concerning 
it. 
> The first time I approached that building, a young man ran across 
the 
> road to warned me (in French, of course) not to go near that 
building 
> because "they perform human sacrifices in there." There is a 
threatre 
> in that building where Annie Besant and Krishnamurti used to 
lecture. 
> In the 1920s the French Section was about 10,000 members. It is 
now 
> much less than half that membership. 
> 
> Even in the US, there is a very significant number of people who 
regard 
> the Theosophical Society, Besant, Leadbeater, and Blavatsky as 
parts of 
> an over all Satanist conspiracy. The word "Occult" is almost 
synonymous 
> with Satanism for most people. There is a local radio show here 
where 
> an evangelist regularly talks about different "cults" such as 
Theosophy, 
> Krishna Consciousness, Alice Bailey etc., and denounces them all as 
very 
> dangerous organizations, and one would risk eternal damnation if 
one 
> were to associate with them.
> 
> In Los Angeles, during the 1970s, about once or twice a year, 
someone 
> would storm into a Lodge meeting in progress and warn everyone that 
they 
> were going to Hell. For awhile a group of fundamentalist 
Christians 
> picketed our Theosophical Lodge with signs warning people to stay 
away. 
> 
> In the town where I live, the Animal Control, around Halloween, 
used to 
> routinely capture and put to death all black cats they found on the 
> streets in order to protect them from being captured and used by 
> Satanists for sacrifices. Fortunately, a couple of years ago, 
saner 
> heads prevailed, and the practice was stopped. But only because 
someone 
> truthfully argued that no one has ever been identified or arrested 
as 
> being a Satanist in this town, and in spite of the many compalints, 
the 
> local Police have never found any evidence of cats of any color 
being 
> ritually sacrificed by anyone. 
> 
> What I am saying Anand, is that Christian Europe is very different 
from 
> Hindu-Muslim India. I doubt if any Hindu would care if their 
neighbor 
> made a yearly pilgrimage to the Adyar Headquarters. In this 
country, 
> and particularly in the town where I live, I must be very selective 
> about what and to whom I speak concerning what I may or may not 
believe. 
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anand Gholap wrote:
> 
> >Erica, 
> >I calculated percentage and that showed very low membership as 
> >percentage of total population, as compared to many other 
countries.
> > If you have numbers it will be interesting to see percentage in 
> >various countries.
> >Anand Gholap
> >
> >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Erica Letzerich 
<eletzerich@y...> 
> >wrote:
> > 
> >
> >>Anand,
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >>Membership here is low indeed. Greece has 10 million population 
and 
> >> 
> >>
> >around 80 members, Brazil has 180 million population and around 
800 
> >or 700 hundred members. In terms of % there is not much difference 
> >between the membership of the T.S. in Greece and membership in the 
> >T.S. in other countries. Generally membership in the T.S. is very 
low 
> >all over the world. Or do you consider a society with 35 or 40 
> >thousand members all over the world a great number? 
> > 
> >
> >> 
> >>
> >> In India how many members are there? 18 thousand or a little 
more? 
> >> 
> >>
> >The population of India has passed the number of one billion, do 
you 
> >think in a country with 1 billion people the T.S. to have 18 
thousand 
> >members is this a great number? I know I am not referring here to 
> >the exact numbers, but they are very close. If you think that such 
> >numbers are all right, it is your opinion. In my opinion such 
numbers 
> >are not all right and low membership in the T.S. is a reality not 
> >only in Greece but all over the world!
> > 
> >
> >> 
> >>
> >>Erica
> >>
> >>
> >>Anand Gholap <AnandGholap@A...> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>Erica,
> >>Membership in Greece is ridiculously low as compared to other 
> >>countries, if I got correct figure. If you are new there then 
other 
> >>leaders might be Blavatskians. Church may be strong but Greece is 
> >> 
> >>
> >not 
> > 
> >
> >>a fundamentalist country. So there must be reasons for failure. 
> >>People don't become members of TS by reading SD. Most come to 
> >>Theosophy after reading books by Leadbeater. Afterwords few 
unlucky 
> >>among them become diehard Blavatskians. Most others read CWL, AB 
> >> 
> >>
> >etc. 
> > 
> >
> >>and some don't read anything. 
> >>Anand Gholap
> >>
> >>
> >>--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Erica Letzerich 
> >>wrote:
> >> 
> >>
> >>>Anand,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>First of all the Theosophical Society in Greece did not fail. 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Second the Greek reality is very different from many countries, 
> >>> 
> >>>
> >the 
> > 
> >
> >>church here is very, but very strong. For a child to join a 
public 
> >>school has to be baptized in the church otherwise cannot join it. 
> >>Because of the strength of the church, orthodoxy here condemns 
not 
> >>only the Theosophical Society but Masonry, and any other movement.
> >> 
> >>
> >>>
> >>>Third this is not a matter of people accepting or not Blavatsky, 
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>because they do not only call Blavatsky Satanist but say much 
worst 
> >>things about Leadbeater. Nobody is trying to impose Blavatsky or 
> >> 
> >>
> >any 
> > 
> >
> >>other kind of teachings here.
> >> 
> >>
> >>>
> >>>I am now only one year and three months an active member in the 
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>Theosophical Society in Greece (but I am a member of the T.S. 15 
> >>years) so it is still too early to attribute anything related to 
> >> 
> >>
> >the 
> > 
> >
> >>Theosophical Society here to me. 
> >> 
> >>
> >>>
> >>>By the way my personal preferences I try do not impose it on 
> >>> 
> >>>
> >others 
> > 
> >
> >>and they are exclusively mine. If you conclude that I am a 
> >>Blavatskyan it is your own conclusion I never said so. By the way 
> >>Blavatsky was not a vegetarian, and many people are not 
vegetarian 
> >>also,so is this a reason to judge them? Buddha's last meal was 
pork 
> >>he was less enlightened for that? I don't think so.
> >> 
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Erica 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Anand Gholap wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Erica,
> >>>Why do people in Greece call Theosophy satanic ? I found that 
> >>>Theosophical movement failed in Greece despite favorable 
> >>> 
> >>>
> >conditions 
> > 
> >
> >>>there. In my opinion this is due to bad direction. I know you 
are 
> >>>diehard Blavatskian but why do you punish whole movement in 
> >>> 
> >>>
> >Greece 
> > 
> >
> >>for 
> >> 
> >>
> >>>that. People don't accept Blavatsky in many parts of the world 
> >>> 
> >>>
> >and 
> > 
> >
> >>>still you insist on her writing. Result is Theosophical movement 
> >>>failed in Greece.
> >>>
> >>>Anand Gholap
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Erica Letzerich .'.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>---------------------------------
> >>>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>>Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! 
> >>>
> >>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Erica Letzerich .'.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>	
> >>---------------------------------
> >>Do you Yahoo!?
> >> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! 
> >>
> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> 
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >