Theos-Talk Archives (April 2005 Message tt00393)

H.P. Blavatsky in THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY wrote
on some of the beliefs of the Spiritualists:

"A mother dies, leaving behind her little helpless 
children -- orphans whom she adores -- perhaps a 
beloved husband also. We say that her 'Spirit' or Ego
. . . is now entirely separated from the 'vale of 
tears,' that its future bliss consists in that blessed
ignorance of all the woes it left behind. Spiritualists 
say, on the contrary, that it is as vividly aware of them, 
and more so than before, for 'Spirits see more than mortals 
in the flesh do.' . . .

"According to their [spiritualists'] doctrine, unfortunate man is not
liberated even by death from the sorrows of this life. Not a drop
from the life-cup of pain and suffering will miss his lips; and
nolens volens, since he sees everything now, shall he drink it to
the bitter dregs. Thus, the loving wife, who during her lifetime was
ready to save her husband sorrow at the price of her heart's blood,
is now doomed to see, in utter helplessness, his despair, and to
register every hot tear he sheds for her loss. . . . [But according
to the esoteric teaching] the spirit is dazed after death and falls
very soon into what we call 'pre-devachanic 
unconsciousness.' . . . ." 
original 1889 edition, pp. 146-147 & 151.

And Master Koot Hoomi wrote to Mr. Sinnett on the
same views of the Spiritualists:

". . . In that world. . . we find but unconscious, self-acting, ex-
human machines, souls in their transition state, whose dormant
faculties and individuality lie as a butterfly in its chrysalis; and
Spiritualists would yet have them talk sense! . . ." 
The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett, 3rd edition, p. 48.

"But why should they [the dead] 'communicate' [with the
living]? . . . how can an unconscious 5th principle [Manas - the
Mind of the dead person] . . . impress or communicate with a living 
organism . . . ?
The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett, 3rd edition, p. 129-130

Yet C.W. Leadbeater, who claimed to follow in the
footsteps of Madame Blavatsky and who declared he was
a disciple of Master Koot Hoomi, gives the Spiritualistic
view on this subject:

"Do the dead then see us? may be asked; do
they hear what we say? Undoubtedly they see
us in the sense that they are always conscious
of our presence, that they know whether we are
happy or miserable; but they do not hear the
words we say, nor are they conscious in detail
of our physical actions. A moment's thought will
show us what are the limits of their power to see.
They are inhabiting, what we have called the
'spiritual body,' a body which exists in ourselves,
and is, as far as appearance goes, an exact
duplicate of the physical body; but while we
are awake our consciousness is focused exclusively
in the latter. We have already said that just as
only physical matter appeals to the physical body,
so only the matter of the spiritual world is
discernible by that higher body. Therefore, what
the dead man can see of us is only our spiritual
body, which, however, he has no difficulty in recognizing. When we
are what we call asleep, our consciousness is using that vehicle,
and so to the dead man we are awake; but when we transfer our
consciousness to the physical body, it seems to the dead man that we
fall asleep, because though he still sees us, we are no longer
paying any attention to him or able to communicate with him. When a
living friend falls asleep we are quite aware of his presence, but
for the moment we cannot communicate with him. Precisely similar is
the condition of the living man (while he is awake) in the eyes of
the dead. Because we cannot usually remember in our waking
consciousness what we have seen during sleep, we are under the
delusion that we have lost our dead; but they are never under the
delusion that they have lost us, because they can see us all the
time. To them the only difference is that we are with them during
the night and away from them during the day; whereas when they were
on earth with us, exactly the reverse was the case.

Now this which, following St. Paul, we have been calling
the "spiritual body" (it is more usually spoken of as the astral
body) is especially the vehicle of our feelings and emotions; it is
therefore these feelings and emotions of ours which show themselves
most clearly to the eyes of the dead. If we are joyous, they
instantly observe it, but they do not necessarily know the reason of
the joy; if sadness comes over us, they at once realize it and share
it, even though they may not know why we are sad. All this, of
course, is during our waking hours; when we are asleep, they
converse with us as of yore on earth. Here in our physical life we
can dissemble our feelings; in that higher world this is impossible,
for they show themselves instantly in visible change. Since so many
of our thoughts are connected with our feelings, most of these also
are readily obvious in that world; but anything in the nature of
abstract thought is still hidden."

Quoted from:

To Those Who Mourn by C W. Leadbeater
http://www.theosophical.ca/ToThoseWhoMourn.htm

Why is there such a DIFFERENCE between the views of 
Blavatsky/Koot Hoomi and those of Leadbeater?

In her COLLECTED WRITINGS, Madame Blavatsky supplies
some important information which may help the
interested student to understand some of the reasons
for these vital contradictions.

She wrote:

"Our correspondent seems to have been misled as to the state of
consciousness which entities experience in Kama-loka. He seems to
have formed his conceptions on the visions of living psychics and
the revelations of living mediums. But all conclusions drawn from
such data are vitiated by the fact, that a living organism
intervenes between the observer and the Kama-loka state per se.
There can be no conscious meeting in Kama-loka, hence no grief.
There is no astral disintegration pari passu with the separation of
the shell from the spirit.

According to the Eastern teaching the state of the deceased in Kama-
loka is not what we, living men, would recognize as "conscious". It
is rather that of a person stunned and dazed by a violent blow, who
has momentarily "lost his senses". Hence in Kama-loka there is as a
rule (apart from vicarious life and consciousness awakened through
contact with mediums) no recognition of friends or relatives.

We meet those we loved only in Devachan, that subjective world of
perfect bliss, the state which succeeds the Kama-loka, after the
separation of the principles. In Devachan all our personal,
unfulfilled spiritual desires and aspirations will be realized; for
we shall not be living in the hard world of matter but in those
subjective realms wherein a desire finds its instant realization;
because man himself is there a god and a creator.

In dealing with the dicta of psychics and mediums, it must always be
remembered that they translate, automatically and unconsciously,
their experiences on any plane of consciousness, into the language
and experience of our normal physical plane. And this confusion can
only be avoided by the special study-training of occultism, which
teaches how to trace and guide the passage of impressions from one
plane to another and fix them on the memory.

Kama-loka may be compared to the dressing-room of an actor, in which
he divests himself of the costume of the last part he played before
rebecoming himself properly - the immortal Ego of the Pilgrim
cycling in his Round of Incarnations. The Eternal Ego being stripped
in Kama-loka of its lower terrestrial principles, with their
passions and desires, it enters into the state of Devachan. And
therefore it is said that only the purely spiritual, the non-
material emotions, affections and aspirations accompany the Ego into
that state of Bliss. But the process of stripping off the lower, the
fourth and part of the fifth, principles is an unconscious one in
all normal human beings. It is only in very exceptional cases that
there is a slight return to consciousness in Kama-loka: and this is
the case of very materialistic unspiritual personalities, who,
devoid of the conditions requisite, cannot enter the state of
absolute Rest and Bliss." COLLECTED WRITINGS, IX, 163

For more information, see:

Life After Death in Kamaloka (the Astral World): 
H.P. Blavatsky versus C.W. Leadbeater compiled by Ray Morgan
http://blavatskyarchives.com/morganafterdeath.htm

At the Solemn Moment of Death: Dying & Soon After
A Collation from the Writings of H.P. Blavatsky & the Mahatmas
http://blavatskyarchives.com/deathml.htm

As a Butterfly in Its Chrysalis
http://blavatskyarchives.com/mon/monwwdie.htm

Once Awakened from Their Post-mortem Torpor . . . .
http://blavatskyarchives.com/mon/revivingf.htm

Exploring the Great Beyond: Our Inner Constitution, Psychism, Life 
After Death & Reincarnation
http://blavatskyarchives.com/blavatskypsychicetc.htm

Daniel
Blavatsky Study Center
http://blavatskyarchives.com