Theos-Talk Archives (April 2005 Message tt00142)

In a message dated 03/25/05 2:08:40 AM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes:

>Found this very interesting link when I went to What the bleep do we know.
>Cass
> 
>http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/

[LM]
(The below interpretations of quantum theory is quoted from Stuart Hameroff.) 

I will comment between some of it to show the relationship to the 
metaphysical theories offered by HPB (and further explained in geophysical terms by the 
ABC model). Note that "collapse of the wave function" has meaning to the 
quantum theorists in terms of their abstract mathematics... But, it is meaningless 
to the theosophical realist who sees, like Einstein, no randomness or 
"chance" in the universe... And knows it as a continuous plenum that extends, as 
globular fields of primal force or energy, from near infinite frequency/energies 
on the highest spiritual plane to the near zero frequencies/energies 
(experienced as "mass") on the physical plane. 

Accordingly, it is the interference patterns of these frequencies that encode 
the holographic information that determines the structure, forms and 
mass-energies of all fields or plains of consciousness. It follows that all apparent 
"quantum" particles are the result of these encodings, and on each plane exist 
analogously at a different phases or levels of vibrational energy patterns.

[SH] 
"There are several modern interpretations of quantum state reduction, or 
'collapse of the wave function'".

1. Persisting is the Copenhagen interpretation (measurement or conscious 
observation collapses the wave function) which is consistent with "positivist" 
philosophies in which the mind constructs reality. The Copenhagen view puts 
consciousness outside physics, but doesn't account for fundamental reality; it 
merely accounts for the results of experiments.

2. The "multiple worlds" or "multiple minds" view follows a suggestion put 
forth by Hugh Everett that each superposition is amplified, leading to branching 
off of a new universe and conscious observer; in one universe the cat is 
dead, and in another universe the cat is alive. There is neither collapse nor 
reduction, however an infinity of realities (or of conscious minds) is required.

3. Another interpretation which avoids reduction/collapse is that of David 
Bohm in which objects have both a particle aspect and a "pilot" wave aspect 
(non-local hidden variable or quantum potential) which acts on and guides the 
particle. Bohm's approach shows that the quantum world can exist independently of 
the human mind, offering a "realist" alternative to Bohr's prevailing 
"positivist" Copenhagen view. But Bohm's view requires another layer of reality.

[LM] 
This, combined with the "holographic paradigm" of Pribram, is the closest to 
theosophical metaphysics... Since their "other layer of reality" could be the 
Absolute zero-point itself and its surrounding "abstract motion" (Spinergy) or 
G-force of angular momentum (as ABC postulates) -- out of which all fields, 
from the finest spiritual vibrations to the coursest physical vibrations 
(carrying holographic information in their vibrational patterns) originates. This 
zero-point, as separated from its spinergy, must be the source of pure 
consciousnsess (awareness-will) -- while its "spinergy" is the root of all substance, 
including physical "matter," that initially involves through the seven fold 
dimensions of "hyperspace" as described by superstring or M theory (which is not 
mentioned by Hameroff, although it completely resolves the inconsistencies 
between relativity and quantum theories). 

>From a theosophical point of view... It's these "coadunate but not 
consubstantial fields" at different orders of frequency/energy that represent the 
multi-spatial separation as well as the "coenergetic" or "electrical" connection 
between mind and (physical) matter or brain. And, its the zero-point where the 
"experience" or feeling of consciousness occurs. 

None of these quantum concepts answer those questions. So, these are "hard 
problems" of explaining the "qualia" of consciousness and the "binding" of mind 
and brain that so baffles the quantum theorists and modern scientists of 
every stripe -- including Hameroff -- (as he admitted to me in a recent letter 
:-). 

4. The theory of decoherence reconciles the Copenhagen interpretation with 
quantum superpositions in the absence of measurement or conscious observation. 
Any interaction, or loss of isolation, of a quantum superposition with a 
classical system (e.g. through heat, direct interaction or information exchange) 
would "decohere" the quantum system to classical states. But decoherence theory 
doesn't define isolation (no quantum system is truly isolated from its 
classical surroundings) nor deal with superpositions which are isolated. 

5. Finally, several proposals posit an objective threshold for reduction 
("objective reduction", "OR"). British mathematical physicist Sir Roger Penrose 
suggests that each superposition corresponds with bifurcation/separation of the 
universe at its most basic level (quantum gravity, or fundamental spacetime 
geometry at the Planck scale). This is akin to the multiple worlds view, however 
according to Penrose the separations of the universe at its most fundamental 
level are unstable and spontaneously reduce ("self-collapse") due to an 
objective, intrinsic feature of spacetime geometry ("objective reduction"). Moreover 
the larger the superposition, the more rapidly it reduces. For example an 
isolated electron in superposition would undergo objective reduction only after 
10 million years; a one kilogram cat in superposition would self-collapse in 
only 10-37 seconds. Penrose's proposal is currently being tested experimentally.

[LM]
Unfortunately, none of the above theories go beyond a completely physical 
interpretation of fundamental reality. Although, Hameroff (who is actually an 
anesthesiologist) personally believes that consciousness (awareness) is on 
"another level of reality" (which he makes no attempt to explain)... But, he 
subscribes to the Penrose version (5) which still, like all the other 
interpretations, assumes that everything on both the sub-quantum and classical level are 
entirely physical, can be explained by probability theories, and that it's the 
complex neurological processes in the brain which cause consciousness to arise 
and that the brain is the source of both mind and memory. 

This leaves no room for the theosophical (and ABC) ideas that there are 
hidden "coadunate but not consubstantial fields" of higher consciousness states (of 
higher frequency-energy phases) beyond the physical or "metric" forms of 
matter, and that mind and memory as well as vital energy and astral form body are 
aspects of those higher order fields. As for their "probability theories" that 
lead to the idea of quantum indeterminacy... Theosophy believes, as did 
Einstein when he said, "God doesn't play dice."

Understandably, most of today's scientists (including Hameroff who happens to 
be a pretty good one:-) cannot accept this multidimensional metaphysical view 
of the theosophical ABC theory and model, since it cannot be proven or 
"falsified" using their scientific methods, makes no testable predictions, and if 
true would bring their whole system of reductive, materialistic science crashing 
down on their heads. :-) 

Best wishes,

Leon...