Theos-Talk Archives (February 2005 Message tt00723)

Hi Jerry
It came from a posting by Dallas on the Mahatma Letters. Again, many thanks
Cass

Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@charter.net> wrote:

Dear Cass,

I would like to see the quote in its original context before I would be 
able to comment upon it. What is the source of the quote?

More important than understanding about Dugpas and Gelupkas is getting 
back to the fact that there are good people, evil people, and all shades 
in between. Dugpas and Gelupkas; good and evil people, are just two 
different ways of talking about the same dynamic while most of us sit 
somewhere between the two extremes.

I like your saying about ostriches, because evil people love ostriches 
who stick their heads in the ground. The problem is, in the long run, 
those ostriches are going to have a lot more than a sore butt to cry over. 

Evil people create themselves by doing evil things inspired by their 
lower nature: selfishness, greed, hatred etc. Good people create 
themselves by doing things inspired by their higher nature: altruism, 
selflessness, love etc. Which nature is more attractive to you? Most 
of us do a little of each. But, over a long period of time we all have 
to ultimately and unerringly gravitate to one pole or the other. Then, 
there are those future incarnations.... We move toward infinity one 
step at a time. 

Best,
Jerry





Cass Silva wrote:

>Dear Jerry
> 
>Thanks for your reply, it was very informative, but how do you explain this
>"Only, look out sharp: the Dugpas and the Gelupkas are not fighting but 
>in 
>Tibet alone, see their vile work in England among the "Occultists and 
>seers!"
> 
>Why is everyone so terrified of the negative in the world. We have a saying here, if you are an ostrich and you put your head in the ground, someone will come along and kick you up the butt. 
> 
>If there are Dugpas and Gelupkas I want to understand where they came from and what part they play in the overall scheme of our evolution. I dont want to become one.
> 
>Cass
>
>
>
>Jerry Hejka-Ekins wrote:
>
>Dear Cass,
>
>Here are some responses. You write:
>
> 
>
>>Dear J,
>>Although off the point a little, I was thinking about the fact that Hitler's body was never found. As we have studied, new bodies can be found for initiates who need to incarnate immediately to carry on their work, do you think this could be the case for Left Hand initiates? If so, it could indicate that he's back in another form. 
>>
>> 
>>
>
>I think that at this point, I need to clarify my own beliefs here. I 
>honestly believe that in the same spirit as HPB remarked about her own 
>writings, all this talk about initiates on the left or right hand path 
>has to be taken with with, as HPB says, a healthy dose of metaphor. The 
>images of initiates on the left and right hand paths indeed evokes some 
>deep truths about our own nature and the nature of the universe we live. 
>But, to take these images too literally can lead us far away from their 
>deeper spiritual meanings. 
>
>As for whether or not Hitler's body was found. Who am I to know? 
>However, as a cable television junkie who loves the educational 
>channels, there was a great investigative piece on this subject that 
>sounded persuasive to me. It showed that Hitler indeed committed 
>suicide, and part of his scull was long ago recovered and is still in 
>the hands of the Russians. While growing up, I don't recall anyone 
>(outside of conspiracy theorists) seriously doubted that Hitler survived 
>the war. 
>
> 
>
>>I was also told many years ago, that Hitler, was used as by the Lords of Karma, to fulfill the karmic results of their actions(The Semites) in their past. And that is why, they went like lambs to the slaughter, without a fight. I don't know, I am not sure I really believe this, and I certainly do not agree with his methods, as this has just promulgated more Karma, this time, for the Germans. Will it ever end?
>>
>> 
>>
>
>This is an interesting idea, but I can't believe it either. It is not 
>(as I understand it) what Purucker was trying to say either. The 
>collective karma of Europe would have to be exactly that--the collective 
>karma of all people of Europe, regardless of race or religion. HPB did 
>make a vague statement or two about the karma of the jews. It is easy to 
>plug in the disaster these people experienced during the second world 
>war as the fulfillment of a prophesy HPB may or may not have made. 
>Personally, I think that would miss the deeper message of her 
>statements. Wars and genocide are human disasters caused by humans. We 
>all, as a collective humanity, have to bare equal collective 
>responsibility for these things.
>
>
> 
>
>>The Germans, like the Atlanteans, seemed to be hypnotised by him into believing the Aryan myth. 
>>If he truly believed in his Myth, why didnt he stand up and tell the truth, I will rid Eastern Europe of all the jews, gypsies, poles, russians, disabled, intellectually unsound, etc etc, and I will do this by means of Gassing, experimental medical studies, torture, rape,terrorism, instead he promised them jobs and work and a better existence.
>>
>> 
>>
>I wish the art of political rhetoric was a required school subject for 
>every person. Then people might be able to better see through what goes 
>on at media events, such as presidential speeches, policy statements 
>etc. Talking up nationalism and telling people that the enemy is a 
>threat to their way of life are the key elements in every propaganda 
>campaign which precedes a war and/or an "ethnic cleansing." No one 
>talks about the unspeakable human suffering that will be unleashed. 
>Instead, they might comfort people with talk about their superior 
>weapons, and/or of the inferior weaponry of the enemy. Unfortunately, 
>it is now the people of the US who seem to be the ones who least 
>understand political rhetoric. The people in Europe, because of their 
>experiences, understand these things far better than the people of the 
>US. In the 1950s, historians used to warn that what happened to 
>German could happen to us. I don't hear those warnings any more, and 
>the possibility that it could happen to in the US is greater than ever. 
>
> 
>
>>The angst the German people must now feel must come from not understanding that they could be controlled in this way. But it is time to put all this away, what is done, is done, and by others and I don't believe that the father's sins are inherited by the son.
>>
>> 
>>
>Yet the German people are still paying for their past. Go to France and 
>observe how a German tourist is treated differently than, say, an 
>"American." The difference is subtle, but it is there. It usually 
>takes fifty years for a people to forget. WW II has taken longer.
>
>My question is: when will humanity start learning from its own past?
>
>Jerry.
>
>
>
>
>
>Cass Silva wrote:
>
> 
>
>>Dear J,
>>Although off the point a little, I was thinking about the fact that Hitler's body was never found. As we have studied, new bodies can be found for initiates who need to incarnate immediately to carry on their work, do you think this could be the case for Left Hand initiates? If so, it could indicate that he's back in another form. 
>>
>>Also, anyone have any ideas on what would happen in the disintegration process of his bodies? 
>>
>>I was also told many years ago, that Hitler, was used as by the Lords of Karma, to fulfill the karmic results of their actions(The Semites) in their past. And that is why, they went like lambs to the slaughter, without a fight. I don't know, I am not sure I really believe this, and I certainly do not agree with his methods, as this has just promulgated more Karma, this time, for the Germans. Will it ever end?
>>The Germans, like the Atlanteans, seemed to be hypnotised by him into believing the Aryan myth. 
>>If he truly believed in his Myth, why didnt he stand up and tell the truth, I will rid Eastern Europe of all the jews, gypsies, poles, russians, disabled, intellectually unsound, etc etc, and I will do this by means of Gassing, experimental medical studies, torture, rape,terrorism, instead he promised them jobs and work and a better existence.
>>
>>The angst the German people must now feel must come from not understanding that they could be controlled in this way. But it is time to put all this away, what is done, is done, and by others and I don't believe that the father's sins are inherited by the son.
>>
>>Any thoughts?
>>
>>Cass
>>
>>Jerry Hejka-Ekins wrote:
>>
>>Hodson's alleged statement about Hitler's aura may still exist 
>>somewhere. It just doesn't happen to be in this issue of the 
>>Theosophist. I would keep looking--I'll help by checking references 
>>here. It wasn't until Hitler invaded Poland in September of 1939, that 
>>people began to really wakeup. So, such a statement could have been 
>>made anytime between 1934 and 1939. 
>>
>>Arundale's early endorsements leave no doubt that he was charmed by 
>>Hitler in the beginning. A lot of people were. Nevertheless, Emily 
>>Lutyens in Candles in the Sun records Arundale's initiations which took 
>>place in the 1920s. He was an "Arhat," as were Besant and Leadbeater. 
>>Arhats are supposed to know who are the good and who are the bad people. 
>>They are supposed to know the future and be practically 
>>omniscient--according to that Theosophical tradition.
>>
>>I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood in Los Angeles, shortly after the 
>>second world war. You could still hear a lot of people speaking yiddish 
>>in those days--almost a dead language now. There were also a lot of 
>>soldiers returning from the war, who bought newly constructed houses on 
>>GI loans and settled down in our neighborhood. So, I heard and felt a 
>>lot of pain: Jews who lost their families in concentration camps; 
>>shell-shocked soldiers almost out of their minds from memories of the 
>>war; and German civilians who tried to avoid the hatred aimed at them. 
>>
>>Purucker, around 1940, or so, spoke of Hitler as a man who carried out 
>>the collective karma of Europe. According to Purucker, at certain times 
>>in human history, an extraordinary person comes along to fulfill the 
>>collective karma of the nations. Alexander the Great, Napoleon, Ghengis 
>>Kahn, Peter the Great, Hitler etc. all, in one sense ambitious, 
>>murderous thugs, who are remembered in different ways by different people.
>>
>>When will we ever learn?
>>
>>--j
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Erica Letzerich wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>>Thank you Jerry for the quote. So if it's not signed by Hodson I wonder why the writer of the article would attribute such statement to Hodson. As there is no major evidence that he wrote it any accusation in this level to Hodson is but without fundament and I take back my previous affirmation. 
>>>
>>>
>>>Erica
>>>
>>>Jerry Hejka-Ekins wrote:
>>>
>>>Unfortunately, the letter is not signed. It reads in part:
>>>
>>>"On the opening evening Adolf Hitler himself was present and by a stroke 
>>>of incredible luck my reserve seat was so very close to him and at right 
>>>angles, that without any effort I could observe him the whole evening 
>>>closely. It has been a tremendous experience for me. In the midst of a 
>>>shattering enthusiasm of thousands and thousands in the streets and in 
>>>the enormous packed concert hall this man was of a simplicity, which 
>>>amounted to grandeur; every gesture, every look, every movement was 
>>>direct, concentrated, but without the smallest trace of 
>>>self-consciousness. He was the only being present for whom Hitler did 
>>>not exist. One felt that he is absolutly one-pointedly possessed by one 
>>>tremendous thought."
>>>
>>>Frank Reitemeyer wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>>Thanks Daniel, I will look whether I have that 
>>>>issue and then scan it.
>>>>Frank
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" 
>>>>
>>>>To: 
>>>>Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 5:11 AM
>>>>Subject: Theos-World Theosophist, June 1936, p. 
>>>>242 on Hitler
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Theost y1936 v57 June p242 -
>>>>Adolf Hitler: Extract from a Letter -- non-German 
>>>>Theosophist
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>Erica Letzerich .'.
>>>
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