Re: Theos-World RE: HPB's article entitled KARMIC VISIONS
Feb 22, 2005 10:41 AM
by M. Sufilight
Hallo Dallas and all,
My views are:
Dallas wrote:
"> I note with deep regret that some have offered their opinions concerning
the
usefulness and validity of HPB's writings, and to bolster this, the
Mahatmas' opinions are vaguely quoted. Let's have some precision and some
degree of scholarship and organization, shall we ? "
My answer:
I note also with regret, that Dallas a long time student of theosophy
has the appearnt aim of degrading our level of knowledge
down to a scholary one.
Let us have a more inspiring stance than a scholary one.
I beg you Dallas.
You required precision by the use of scholary versions.
The following Mahatma Letters should show the ernest student and reader,
that Blavatsky was
not always that reliable and without faults - including her being too
outspoken from time to time.
This one tells us something about it:
*** Received November 1880 written by Koot' Hoomi.***
"Even if Madame B. might "be induced" to give the A.I. Society any
"practical instruction" I am afraid she has remained too long a time outside
the adytum to be of much use for practical explanations. However, though it
does not depend upon me, I will see what I can do in this direction. But I
fear she is sadly in need of a few months of recuperative villagiatura, on
the glaciers, with her old Master before she can be entrusted with such a
difficult task. Be very cautious with her in case she stops with you on her
way down home. Her nervous system is terribly shaken, and she requires every
care. Will you please spare me needless trouble by informing me of the year,
date, and hour of Mrs. Sinnett's birth?"
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-5.htm
*** The Master Morya letter --- Received Allahabad, 3rd March, 1882. ***
"The old woman? Of course she will be frantic -- but who cares? It's kept
from her however secret. No use making her more miserable than what she is.
Cook is a pump of filth, with perpetually working pistons and the sooner he
screws them up -- the better for him. Your last letter to me is less a
"petition" than a protest, my respected Sahib. It's voice is that of the war
sankh of my Rajput ancestors, rather than the cooing of a friend. And I like
it all the more I promise you. It has the right ring of honest frankness. So
let us talk -- for sharp as your voice may be, your heart is warm and you
end by saying "Whether you decree that what seems to me right be done or
not" you are ever ours faithfully etc. Europe is a large place but the world
is bigger yet. The sun of Theosophy must shine for all, not for a part.
There is more of this movement than you have yet had an inkling of, and the
work of the T.S. is linked in with similar work that is secretly going on in
all parts of the world. Even in the T.S. there is a division, managed by a
Greek Brother about which not a person in the Society has a suspicion
excepting the old woman and Olcott; and even he only knows it is
progressing, and occasionally executes an order I send him in connection
with it. The cycle I spoke of refers to the whole movement. Europe will not
be overlooked, never fear; but perhaps you even may not anticipate how the
light will be shed there. Ask your Seraph -- K.H. to let you have details
thereof."
--- and further ---
"You ought to have learned by this time our ways. We advise -- and never
order. But we do influence individuals."
--- and further ---
"You know K.H. and me -- buss! know you anything of the whole Brotherhood
and its ramifications? The Old Woman is accused of untruthfulness,
inaccuracy in her statements. "Ask no questions and you will receive no
lies." She is forbidden to say what she knows. You may cut her to pieces and
she will not tell. Nay -- she is ordered in cases of need to mislead people;
and, were she more of a natural born liar -- she might be happier and won
her day long since by this time. But that's just where the shoe pinches,
Sahib. She is too truthful, too outspoken, too incapable of dissimulation:
and now she is being daily crucified for it. Try not to be hasty, respected
Sir. The world was not made in a day; nor has the tail of the yak developed
in one year. Let evolution take its course naturally -- lest we make it
deviate and produce monsters by presuming to guide it. "
--- and further ---
"Only, look out sharp: the Dugpas and the Gelupkas are not fighting but in
Tibet alone, see their vile work in England among the "Occultists and
seers!"
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-47.htm
The question is whether the folowing is a valid letter:
*** Received London, Oct. 10th, 1884 written by K. H. ***
"Such books as the Occult World and Esoteric Buddhism do not pass unnoticed
under the eyes of those faithful guardians, and it is absolutely necessary
that those who would have that knowledge should be thoroughly tried and
tested. Infer from this what you will; but remember that my Brother and I,
are the only among the Brotherhood who have at heart the dissemination (to a
certain limit) of our doctrines, and H.P.B. was hither to our sole
machinery, our most docile agent. Granting that she is all you describe
her -- and I have already told you that the ricketty old body becomes
sometimes positively dangerous -- still it does not excuse in you the
smallest relaxation of effort to save the situation and push on the work
(and especially protect our correspondence) all the faster. Deem it, what it
is, a positive advantage to the rest of you that she should have been what
she is, since it has thrown upon you the greater stimulus to accomplish in
spite of the difficulties you believe she has created. I do not say we
should have preferred her had a more tractable agent been available, but
still, so far as yourselves are concerned it has been an advantage, yet you
have alienated her for a long time if not for ever and thereby thrown
tremendous difficulties in my way. Remember what I said to you some two
years ago "were H.P.B. to die before we found a substitute," the powers
through which we work in our communications with the outside world may
permit the transmission of two or three letters more, then it would die out
and you would have no more letters from me. Well -- she is virtually dead;
and it is yourself -- pardon me this one more truth -- who have killed the
rude but faithful agent, one moreover who was really devoted to you
personally. Let us drop the subject if it is distasteful to you. I have done
my best to stop the evil but I have neither jurisdiction or control over
her, nor shall I have any better chance with Mrs. H. She is a magnificent
subject naturally but so distrustful of herself and others, so apt to take
the real for hallucination and vice versa that it will require a long time
before she becomes thoroughly controllable even by herself. She is far, far
from being ready; moreover she understands neither herself, nor us. Verily
our ways are not your ways, hence there remains but little hope for us in
the West. "
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-66.htm
Also this letter. The question is whether the folowing is a valid letter:
*** Received January, 1884. written by K. H. ***
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-86.htm
*** Received Simla, October, 1882 written by K. H. ***
"All that now happens is brought on by H.P.B. herself; and to you, my
friend and brother, I will reveal her shortcomings, for you were tested and
tried, and you alone have not hitherto failed -- at any rate not in one
direction -- that of discretion and silence. But before I reveal her one
great fault to you -- (a fault, indeed, in its disastrous results, yet
withal a virtue) I must remind you of that, which you so heartily hate:
namely, that no one comes in contact with us, no one shows a desire to know
more of us, but has to submit being tested and put by us on probation. "
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-54.htm
And let us ever remember, that these letters was written in the past to a
past audience.
And that some of them were not mainly intended to be made public.
And that you as a reader will have to decide wether you want to rely on them
as coming from the real Masters or form another source.
Or from a source you call the Masters, but is something else because you in
your ignorance consider the Masters to be something quite earhtly.
It is entirely your choice.
I hope this was helpful enough to show you all, that
we have to life our lives according to the esoterical and theosophical Path
and not try to preserve any teacher (HPB included) as a Bible, scholary
textbook or a Personalized Guru on a commercialized display.
from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...
----- Original Message -----
From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" <dalval14@earthlink.net>
To: "AA-BNStudy" <study@blavatsky.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 5:44 AM
Subject: Theos-World RE: HPB's article entitled KARMIC VISIONS
Feb 21 205
Re: HPB's article entitled KARMIC VISIONS
Dear Friends:
I note with deep regret that some have offered their opinions concerning
the
usefulness and validity of HPB's writings, and to bolster this, the
Mahatmas' opinions are vaguely quoted. Let's have some precision and some
degree of scholarship and organization, shall we ?
But let's also be fair!
Here is what the Masters have actually said concerning Their work with
her:
"But it is now time to give out a certificate given when the Secret
Doctrine
was being written, a certificate signed by the Masters who have given out
all that is new in our theosophical books. It was sent to one who had then
a
few doubts, and at the same time copies were given from the same source to
others for use in the future, which is now. The first certificate runs
thus:
I wonder if this note of mine is worthy of occupying a select spot with
the
documents reproduced, and which of the peculiarities of the "Blavatskian"
style of writing it will be found to most resemble? The present is simply
to
satisfy the Doctor that "the more proof given the less believed." Let him
take my advice and not make these two documents public. It is for his own
satisfaction the undersigned is happy to assure him that the Secret
Doctrine, when ready, will be the triple production of [here are the names
of one of the Masters and of H.P.B.] and _______ most humble servant,
[signed by the other.]
On the back of this was the following, signed by the Master who is
mentioned
in the above:
If this can be of any use or help to _____, though I doubt it, I, the
humble
undersigned Faquir, certify that the Secret Doctrine is dictated to [name
of
H.P.B.], partly by myself and partly by my brother ______.
A year after this, certain doubts having arisen in the minds of
individuals,
another letter from one of the signers of the foregoing was sent and reads
as follows. As the prophecy in it has come true, it is now the time to
publish it for the benefit of those who know something of how to take and
understand such letters. For the outside it will all be so much nonsense.
The certificate given last year saying the Secret Doctrine would be when
finished the triple production of [H.P.B.'s name], ________, and myself
was
and is correct, although some have doubted not only the facts given in it
but also the authenticity of the message in which it was contained.
Copy this and also keep the copy of the aforesaid certificate. You will
find
them both of use on the day when you shall, as will happen without your
asking, receive from the hands of the very person to whom the certificate
was given, the original for the purpose of allowing you to copy it; and
then
you can verify the correctness of this presently forwarded copy.
And it may then be well to indicate to those wishing to know what portions
in the Secret Doctrine have been copied by the pen of [H.P.B.'s name] into
its pages, though without quotation marks, from my own manuscript and
perhaps from ______, though the last is more difficult from the rarity of
his known writing and greater ignorance of his style. All this and more
will
be found necessary as time goes on, but for which you are well qualified
to
wait.
ONE OF THE STAFF Path, April, 1893."
[These Certificates were given to Dr. Hubbe-Schleiden, and later by him to
Mr. W. Q. Judge. DTB]
Let's look at KARMIC VISIONS -- there HPB narrates the karmic legacy of
a
single individual Ego. It is not related to "the political Germany" we
are
familiar with, nor does it characterize a politicized group.
The Karma of every individual is their own. The collective Karma of a
Nation
is a composite whole drawn from every member of that mass of people.
We find in APHORISMS ON KARMA the following :
"5) Karma operates on all things and beings from the minutest conceivable
atom to Brahma. Proceeding in the three worlds: men, gods, and the
elemental beings, no spot in the manifested universe is exempt from its
sway.
(6) Karma is not subject to time, and therefore he who knows what is the
ultimate division of time in this Universe knows Karma.
(7) For all other men Karma is in its essential nature unknown and
unknowable.
(8) But its action may be known by calculation from cause to effect; and
this calculation is possible because the effect is wrapped up in and is
not
succedent to the cause.
(9) The Karma of this earth is the combination of the acts and thoughts of
all beings of every grade which were concerned in the preceding Manvantara
or evolutionary stream from which ours flows.
(10) And as those beings include Lords of Power and Holy Men, as well as
weak and wicked ones, the period of the earth's duration is greater than
that of any entity or race upon it.
(11) Because the Karma of this earth and its races began in a past too far
back for human minds to reach, an inquiry into its beginning is useless
and
profitless.
(12) Karmic causes already set in motion must be allowed to sweep on until
exhausted, but this permits no man to refuse to help his fellows and every
sentient being.
(13) The effects may be counteracted or mitigated by the thoughts and acts
of oneself or of another, and then the resulting effects represent the
combination and interaction of the whole number of causes involved in
producing the effects.
(14) In the life of worlds, races, nations, and individuals, Karma cannot
act unless there is an appropriate instrument provided for its action.
(15) And until such appropriate instrument is found, that Karma related to
it remains unexpended."
What should not be missed is that HPB caused the article to be published
in
LUCIFER almost within a few of days that Frederick III died of cancer of
the
throat.
It illustrates to us the power and wisdom of the Great Lodge and its
Masters
-- to know Karma, individually and collectively and to be able to use that
to illustrate an aspect of real THEOSOPHY. I mean the spiritual, and not
the psychic or the curious types.
It also illustrates the teaching concerning the immortality of the
SPIRIT-SOUL and its perfectibility under the power of a self-made vow.
These are facts and powers we all have, states THEOSOPHY.
Col. Olcott records:
"[Colonel Olcott in Old Diary Leaves, Third Series, pp. 36-7, describes
the
incident of receiving this letter.
'Objective proof' refers to the visit of the Master M. to Colonel Olcott
in
New York, described in Old Diary Leaves, First Series, pp. 379-80. The
'objective proof' is the fehta or turban, now at Adyar, which the Master
M.
left with the Colonel as a proof that his visit was not a 'Maya' but was a
reality.]
"SINCE the commencement of your probationary term in America, you have had
much to do with me, tho' your imperfect development has often made you
mistake me ... You have not only seen and conversed with, but touched me,
my
hand has pressed yours, and the K.H. of fancy becomes the K of fact. Your
skeptical action, often running into extreme conservatism- perhaps the
very
last trait that the careless would suggest of you- has seriously and
constantly impeded your inner unfolding. It has made you
suspicious-sometimes cruelly so- of Upasika, of Borg, of Djual-K. even of
Damodar and D. Nath, whom you love as sons. This meeting of ours should
radically change the state of your mind. Should it not, so much the worse
for your future; truth never comes, burglar-like, thro' barred windows and
iron-sheathed doors.
I came to you not alone of my own accord and wish, but also by order of
the
Maha Chohan, to whose insight the future lies like an open page.
At New York you demanded of M. an objective proof that his visit to you
was
not a maya-and he gave it; unasked, I give you the present one: tho' I
pass
out of your sight this note will be to you the reminder of our
conferences.
"
From: "Letters From the M of Wisdom," 1st Series, p. 47
Further:
None of us are able to write a SECRET DOCTRINE or an ISIS UNVEILED; nor
are
we able to write as the Mahatmas do -- the evidence being their writing in
English (not their language) and their range of ideas as is found in
MAHATMA
LETTERS and elsewhere in the "original literature.".
I would say we owe Them such a debt, that study and correlation of what
They
write is the least level of respect we can extend to Them.
If we are not able to embrace Their Philosophy, then who are we to hazard
criticism or doubt? It does not speak well of us when we do that, is my
way
of thinking.
If we desire to ask questions, that is one thing, but if we are obsessed
with our own virtues and pride of learning, then in humility we need to
rephrase our exchanges.
If we saturate the atmosphere around us with diverging opinions, and have
made little or no discernable effort to prove they are valid, then, why
expose ourselves to ridicule by expressing opinions concerning Them?
If we are going to dignify THEOSOPHY by our study and respect, then I feel
strongly we need to focus on learning WHAT THEOSOPHY IS.
One of the problems we all face is that it is uncompromising. And to
oppose
this we seize upon opinions that are mushy and favorable to untenable
compromise, to the way in which we wish they were.
Theosophy is not to be confused with the opinions held concerning the life
and activities of those who are connected with or associated with
THEOSOPHY
the ancient philosophy, the "Sanatana Dharma.".
Theosophy is said to be as ancient as the Universe, and to be a record of
the history of the reincarnation of Universes, as well as of man-bearing
Worlds, such as ours.
It records therefore the birth and "creation" [or rather the
re-formation"]
of all Universes, galaxies, Solar Systems, worlds, humans and every kind
of
"being," etc.. and, with equal skill, considers the importance of atoms,
molecules and their smallest components.
It views our universe and world as examples of fields of evolution rules
by
exact and sensitive laws that serve to impersonally serve, protect and
sustain all beings of whatever kind or degree, visible or invisible.
Best wishes,
Dallas
========================================
-----Original Message-----
From: M. S
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 1:01 PM
To:
Subject: Re: HPB's article entitled KARMIC VISIONS
Hallo all,
My views are:
I think one or two of the Masters are supposed to have said, that she -
H.P.
Blavatsky was not quite reliable in certain respects.
There is also the issue, that the one of the Masters said that she HPB was
too outspoken.
....So I suggest, as Leon almost says, that we view it all
in the karmic historical perspective -
while not letting HPB be regarded as
entirely without faults.
CUT
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