Theos-Talk Archives (February 2005 Message tt00642)

Morton, et al.

To set the record straight... Frank is not Leon. 

One is a Hitler lover. The other is a survivor of WW2 and the Nazi 
concentration camps, gas chambers, and human crematories that Hitler sanctioned -- in 
direct opposition to the Heart Doctrine principles promulgated by HPB. 

HPB simply told the truth about war and the evil geniuses that promote it for 
their own selfish reasons. To pass the blame for World War II onto her, 
however implied -- rather than on the cabal of black magicians (who knew all the 
occult secrets long before HPB came on the scene) and used Hitler's 
psycho-pathological anger, personal frustration and delusional madness that fueled his 
charisma, to fulfill their nefarious aims, not to mention using such an 
implication to justify Hitler's actions -- is the height of arrogant neo-nazi 
"Deutsche Chutzpah" (as many holocaust survivors might say :). 

I would agree, however, that Hitler was simply one of the stooges of these 
"Dugpas" -- like many "politicians" are today on many levels of power and 
private interests (both religious and economic) in many countries throughout the 
world. All the rest of us, apparently, are either their disposable "cannon 
fodder" to use up their ammunition and wear out their war machines so they can 
profit by making more -- or we are the "consumers" of their products that are 
designed to keep us hungering for more of the pleasures of owning something new 
(Isn't that why new automobiles are perfumed up to smell so nice?) or keeping 
one step ahead of our neighbors, and becoming habituated to their "patented 
medicines" designed to palliate rather than cure, etc., etc. 

We could go on and on about how the ordinary public is constantly deluded by 
their selfishly, and thus, anti-theosophically motivated propaganda (based on 
half truths and outright falsities) to sell their products (including 
politicians) as well as promote fears that justify their wars -- which flood the mass 
media -- that they own and control... So, round and round it goes, and when it 
will stop, nobody knows... 

But, Truth is truth, and has no relationship to the manner in which different 
people interpret and apply it. And, one can't blame the messenger for the 
actions of others which may or may not be triggered by the message.

HPB simply spoke the truth as she was taught it, practiced it, and proved it 
for herself... Her mission was to show us the path to finding that Truth for 
ourselves. Something which we should all start doing instead of arguing about 
who is right and who is wrong. Or whether HPB's approach to theosophy or 
Idris Shah's is the right way in this day and age. 

As (take it or leave it) advice about how to go about this... We must 
remember that each spiritual teacher who tries to interpret or expand upon the 
original fundamental teachings, sees only that portion of the Truth from their own 
particular point of view colored by their own conditioned beliefs and personal 
desires. 

The game, then, is to be open minded and dispassionately examine each of 
those points of view, try to understand the personal psychological motives of 
each of the teachers behind them, compare their interpretation with the original 
teachings, and then synthesize and extract the real truth for ourselves -- 
which can never be spoken, written, or diagrammed, but only self-experienced as a 
direct (from spirit to mind) intuitive insight that sees all possible points 
of view simultaneously.

As for taking direct action to solve the world's present dilemmas... Well, 
that's a horse of another color 

Leon 


In a message dated 02/21/05 5:02:15 PM, global-theosophy@stofanet.dk writes:

Hallo all,


My views are:


I think one or two of the Masters

are supposed to have said, that she - H.P. Blavatsky

was not quite reliable in certain respects.


There is also the issue, that the one of the Masters

said that she HPB was too outspoken.

--- And this is maybe the key to the below article by her. ---

HPB's article might have sparked some of the events

that really took place in europe during WW II.

Remember certain initiates of a more or less gray nature read HPB's papers 

or "learned" from her.


So I suggest, as Leon almost says, that we view it all

in the karmic historical perspective -

while not letting HPB be regarded as

entirely without faults.


Do you not agree Daniel ?


And as for "Puppets" in the below. If we refer them to WW II:

Even USA used propagandic communcation heavily during the WW II.

And the population in USA could also back then be viewed as mere "puppets".

(Not to mention the use of propaganda today.)


Let us remember that the Korean war came only few years later.

And then came Vietnam.


So Blavatsky's words focusses perhaps way too much

on Germany's or Europe's fate when we view her words - today - say by year 

2005 average standard knowledge.

That is why words and teachings has to be given

according to time, place, people and circumstances - and not necessarily as 

a Bible or Guru on display using the name Blavatsky.

I hope you get my drift Daniel Caldwell.

(I would like if the readers would keep the following email of mine in mind 

and perhaps relate it to Blavatsky's Esoteric Section

when they follow these debates on theosphy "a la Blavatsky version" or "a la 

today 2005 Idries Shah verison":

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/22241 )


*******

Bottomline.

We live and die. The Law of Karma is real to us who knows about it.

To others it is still just a maybe or maybe not.

And there are several levels of knowledge about this law for those of us who 

knows about it.

*******


Right now I am sort of looking forward to what is going on around the coming 

UN organisational reforms

and the possible reforms of the UN Security Counsil and its USA "puppets". 

And also the European Unions

talks about letting Turkey become a member of its party. The new African 

counsil are also of the greatest interest.

There are some positive signs in India and other countries as well.

These issue are of concern today, since we deal with the corruption in 

society and government (ie. Peace on earth)

and how to get rid of the evils and neclects of wisdom.

The past plays a role here. Psychic (media and law) censorship in Germany 

and now today also in USA tells their tales.

And the various cultures clashes internally and externally.


But let us lighten up a bit Leon. Germany is a member of the EU (although it 

has its faults of corruption and the like)

And because of its membership Germany is not that alone anymore. So "nie 

wieder" as we say. >:-)

(But Goering sort of got his say if we look at EU, and that is not a very 

pretty sign.)


There will be peace in Israel.

No doubt in my mind about it.



There will be ups and downs.

But wisdom will prevail.

It will all turn out very well.

I know this.



from

M. Sufilight with peace and love...



----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" <danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com>

To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 8:26 PM

Subject: Theos-World HPB's article entitled KARMIC VISIONS & Frank's 

relevant comments



>

>

> First, the extract from HPB's article titled KARMIC VISIONS

> http://blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/KarmicVisions.htm

> where she writes:

>

> ---------------------------------------------------

> A hideous dream detaches itself from a group of

> passing visions, and alights heavily on his aching

> chest. The night-mare shows him men, expiring on the

> battle field with a curse on those who led them to their

> destruction. Every pang in his own wasting body brings

> to him in dream the recollection of pangs still

> worse, of pangs suffered through and for him. He sees

> and feels the torture of THE FALLEN MILLIONS, who die

> after long hours of terrible mental and physical

> agony; who expire in forest and plain, in stagnant ditches

> by the road-side, in pools of blood under a sky made

> black with smoke. His eyes are once more rivetted to the

> torrents of blood, every drop of which represents a

> tear of despair, a heart-rent cry, a life-long sorrow.

> He hears again the thrilling sighs of desolation, and

> the shrill cries ringing through mount, forest and

> valley. He sees the old mothers who have lost the light

> of their souls; families, the hand that fed them. He

> beholds widowed young wives thrown on the wide, cold world,

> and beggared orphans wailing in the streets by the

> thousands. He finds the young daughters of his bravest

> old soldiers exchanging their mourning garments for

> the gaudy frippery of prostitution, and the Soul-Ego

> shudders in the sleeping Form. . . .

>

> ...His heart is rent by the groans of the famished;

> his eyes blinded by the smoke of burning hamlets,

> of homes destroyed, of towns and cities in smouldering ruins. . . .

>

> "What have they brought thee or to thy fatherland, those bloody

> victories!" whispers the Soul in him. "A population clad

> in iron armour," it replies. "Two score millions of men dead

> now to all spiritual aspiration and Soul- life. A

> people, henceforth deaf to the peaceful voice of the honest

> citizen's duty, averse to a life of peace, blind to the arts

> and literature, indifferent to all but lucre and ambition.

> What is thy future Kingdom, now? A legion of war-puppets

> as units, a great wild beast in their collectivity. A beast that,

> like the sea yonder, slumbers gloomily now, but to fall with

> the more fury on the first enemy that is indicated to it.

> Indicated, by whom? It is as though a heartless, proud

> Fiend, assuming sudden authority, incarnate Ambition and Power,

> had clutched with iron hand the minds of a whole country. By

> what wicked enchantment has he brought the people back to those

> primeval days of the nation when their ancestors, the yellow-haired

> Suevi, and the treacherous Franks roamed about in their warlike

> spirit, thirsting to kill, to decimate and subject each other?

> By what infernal powers has this been accomplished? Yet the

> transformation has been produced and it is as undeniable as the fact

> that alone the Fiend rejoices and boasts of the transformation

> effected. The whole world is hushed in breathless expectation.

> Not a wife or mother, but is haunted in her dreams by the

> black and ominous storm-cloud that overhangs THE WHOLE

> of Europe. The cloud is approaching. . . . . .It comes nearer

> and nearer OH WOE AND HORROR! I foresee once more for earth

> the suffering I have already witnessed. I read the

> fatal destiny upon the brow of the flower of Europe's youth. . . .

> [caps added]

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Now, Frank's comments to me:

>

> -----------------------------------------------

> As you quote from HPB's article "Karmic Visions"

> one could conclude that you identify Hitler in

> this vision, don't?

> It seem you share the same exoteric, dead letter

> view that also Annie Besant held in her German

> hate.

> Is no other interpretation possible?

> Is it not possible that HPB - limited to karmic

> law to not interfere with outer incidents - used

> the mystery language?

> And even if your exoteric interpretation is right:

> Should it not be checked by real history?

> --------------------------------------------

>

> So Frank, what is your "esoteric" interpretation

> of what HPB writes? Here is your chance to give

> the other side. Please do.

>

> Daniel

> http://hpb.cc

>

>