Theos-Talk Archives (February 2005 Message tt00579)

Daniel (do you allow me to adress you in the first
person?),
I have every respect for your wide-ranged
historical research and literary output in books
and online.

But often I am perplexed reading your replies to
my humble arguments. Sometimes I wonder whether
you have a special rhetoric or pedagogic agenda or
whether you simple cannot or understand the
meaning of what I write. It seems you stick always
on the outer words. Or perhaps my English is too
bad for you.

Before you are driving wild and call me a Nazi
(the Egyptian nsr or nzr and Nazirite means
something like "to burn" , "holy fire", Nsrsr ist
"Island of fire") I am luckily enough to show you
how the Anti-German lie propaganda in the medias
works every day: To give you just one example
which is to be found on the net you may take a
look at:
http://www.pm-magazin.de/de/wissensnews/wn_id969.htm

A recent article in P.M. magazine, Germans biggest
pop science magazine, to have in every shop. P.M.
means Peter Mossleitner. I guess you can conclude
for yourself to which race he belongs.
In this article Hitler's pseudo-religion is
condemned because he persecuted the church. Madame
Blavatsky is mentioned as his forerunner.
The rhetoric implication is that Madame Blavatsky
is regarded as the designer of the alleged gas
chambers.

Daniel, BTW, as you are an active researcher when
it comes to the machinations of the Coloumbs and
question all what is negative to HPB (what I
welcome), could you provide me with a single photo
of one of Hitler's gas chambers? It would be very
interesting to me as it would proof something. And
please no photo where a potato cellar or a shower
room crematorium is to see.

Daniel, I think you have developed by your good
research enough discrimination power to recognize
that it was not I who claimed that HPB was
Hitler's forerunner. I just was the bringer of
this information that this slanders are appearing
weekly in Germany in the Jewish and Jesuitic press
(Hitler persecuted the SJ).

Daniel, you ask the round: "What pray tell does
Hitler have to do with HPB, the Mahatmas and
Theosophy?"

This is an interesting question. It deserves a
serious answer. No one gave this serious answer to
this day. Partly because it is very dangerous for
health. Too many people have sudden car accindents
or commit "suicide" (the American cant method to
get rid of critics and heretics, in opposite to
the brutal but upright Bolshevist neck shot).

If I would find the time I would write a chart for
the search to such an answer. After reading a good
deal of his original speeches - which are many
thousand - (note, I do not read "translations",
"reprints" or other poppycock) there are striking
similarities to be found in style, word and
centent.

To left you not too long in the dark I give some
quick points out of memory for the moment:

1. Both declared the destruction of Socialism and
Communism as their life mission.
2. Both declared the revolution work of the Jews
in Russia as very dangerous for Europe.
3. Both regarded the arts as important to human
development and called for protection of it.
4. Both regarded the SJ as the biggest evil.
5. Both regarded hypocrisy and cant as a serious
defect of the character of both an individual and
of a nation.
6. Both declared that the money should work for
the people, not the people work for the money.
7. Both opposed the plutocracy.
8. Both regarded the aristocracy as degenerated.
9. Both regarded cultural tradition - like wearing
traditional dress in Southern Tirol - as important
and to be protected.
10. Both regarded a good education to the higher
as important to the human soul.
11. Both opposed the godless movements and
regarded the existence and development of the soul
power as important.
12. Both opposed the Versailles "treaty" of 1919
(KT as HPB's tulku and executor of her will).
13. Both regarded Universal Brotherhood as
important for the survival of mankind.
14. Both regarded the Versailles lie that Germany
was sole responsible for WWI as untrue (after 1891
I mean always KT).
15. Both warned for a new WW, Hitler alone in
September 1939 made over 20 serious, altruistic
peace offers to the Allies as British historian
Martin Allen just proofed. (=KT)
16. Both regarded it a duty to work for his people
and hos race, as in the natural herarchy the
soulpower of the national spirit must not be
ignored.
17. Both opposed the extremistic Taliban party in
Jewry: Zionism as opposed to true Thora Jewry, as
also Steiner said and until today the pukka Jews,
look at "Neturei Karta International. Jews united
against Zionism" http://www.nkusa.org/
18. Both regarded pluralism as important to human
development.
19. Both regarded vegetarianism as important to
human development.
20. Both regarded fight against cruelty to
animals, slaughter, ritual sacrifice as important.
21. Both regarded the return of the stolen German
colonies as important (GvP as HPB's tulku).
22. Both regarded Tibet in the East and Germany in
the West as the last spiritual fortresses to
prevent cilvilization for descend into kali yug.
23. Both regarded priesthood as danger to the
people.
24. Both regarded the Jewish character as
dangerous.
25. Both regarded the Aryan character & history as
important.
26. Both regarded historical, archeological
reasearch for old Aryan culture, buildings,
literature as important.

etc. etc.
I just wrote this in five minutes. If you would do
a deeper research you could easily find dozens
more points what both had in common.
A chart which presents original quotes would be
necessary for comparisation.

Daniel, as to the links you give which just repeat
the known daily propaganda: Have you checked the
sources, have you contrasted them with counter
arguments?
As you quote from HPB's article "Karmic Visions"
one could conclude that you identify Hitler in
this vision, don't?
It seem you share the same exoteric, dead letter
view that also Annie Besant held in her German
hate.
Is no other interpretation possible?
Is it not possible that HPB - limited to karmic
law to not interfere with outer incidents - used
the mystery language?
And even if your exoteric interpretation is right:
Should it not be checked by real history?

Where is your historical scepticism and doubt
which you always show with the Hodgson report,
when it comes to newer incidents like WW, 9-11,
moon landing, Iraq???

Where is your criticism about the Hitler poppycock
in Sylvia Cranston's book? How comes it that the
part in the book about HPB is a nearly accurate
repeating of the literature, although one would
have wished that one HPB biographer begins after
100 years with HPB's true genealogy, as the
genealogy Boris de Zirkoff presents is but FICTION
from the beginning to the end, as HPB is NOT
related to the Hahn family in Germany and a
Rottenstern or Rothenstern family never existed as
many other figures BdeZ invents by constructing
his fiction genealogy where even he himself
appears as a relative of HPB, which is not the
case.

The Jewish socialistic/communistic or godless and
soulless press regards Hitler as a Theosophist, as
he believed in the divinity, providence, race and
the higher life which is all strongly opposed to
the Jewish concepts with which Western
civilization is threatened since longer:
Socialism, Communism, Darwinism, Liberalism,
Democracy (Compare the "Protocols with real life
today").

Neo-Nazis (who may have as much to do with
Hitler's spirit and policy as the nowadays
Theosophists with HPB) condemn Theosophy because
it made Hitler too mild in the struggle against
the Jewish takeover.

As my personal research is rather in the beginning
as at the end I tend to follow the middle way.

I would thank you if you would answer my 
understanding question re physical body.

Frank


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel H. Caldwell"
<danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:45 AM
Subject: Theos-World Hitler, Nazism, the
Holocaust, Holocaust Denial, Anti-Semitism, &
Neo-Nazism




Hitler, Nazism, the Holocaust,
Holocaust Denial, Anti-Semitism, and Neo-Nazism

Frank has written that ". . .HPB is regarded
by some people as a forerunner of Hitler...."

Unfortunately, Frank does NOT explain
how and why these people would come to
such a conclusion. Furthermore, Frank
does NOT tell us whether he is of the
same opinion, i.e., HPB was a forerunner
of Hitler.

As far as I can tell, HPB and Hitler are
at opposite ends of the spectrum!

What pray tell does Hitler have to do
with HPB, the Mahatmas and Theosophy?

Personally, I regard Hitler as a FIEND. The
dictionary defines a
fiend as "a devil; a demon; a person of great
wickedness or maliciousness."

See HPB's article titled KARMIC VISIONS
http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/KarmicVisions.htm
where she writes:

---------------------------------------------------------------------
A hideous dream detaches itself from a group of
passing visions, and alights heavily on his aching
chest. The night-
mare shows him men, expiring on the
battle field with a curse on those who led them to
their
destruction. Every pang
in his own wasting body brings to him in dream the
recollection of
pangs still
worse, of pangs suffered through and for him. He
sees and feels the
torture of
the fallen millions, who die after long hours of
terrible mental and
physical
agony; who expire in forest and plain, in stagnant
ditches by the
road-side, in
pools of blood under a sky made black with smoke.
His eyes are once
more
rivetted to the torrents of blood, every drop of
which represents a
tear of
despair, a heart-rent cry, a life-long sorrow. He
hears again the
thrilling
sighs of desolation, and the shrill cries ringing
through mount,
forest and
valley. He sees the old mothers who have lost the
light of their
souls;
families, the hand that fed them. He beholds
widowed young wives
thrown on
the wide, cold world, and beggared orphans wailing
in the streets by
the
thousands. He finds the young daughters of his
bravest old soldiers
exchanging
their mourning garments for the gaudy frippery of
prostitution, and
the Soul-Ego
shudders in the sleeping Form. . . . His heart is
rent by the groans
of the
famished; his eyes blinded by the smoke of burning
hamlets, of homes
destroyed,
of towns and cities in smouldering ruins. . . .

"What have they brought thee or to thy fatherland,
those bloody
victories!"
whispers the Soul in him. "A population clad in
iron armour," it
replies. "Two
score millions of men dead now to all spiritual
aspiration and Soul-
life. A
people, henceforth deaf to the peaceful voice of
the honest
citizen's duty,
averse to a life of peace, blind to the arts and
literature,
indifferent to all
but lucre and ambition. What is thy future
Kingdom, now? A legion of
war-puppets
as units, a great wild beast in their
collectivity. A beast that,
like the sea
yonder, slumbers gloomily now, but to fall with
the more fury on the
first enemy
that is indicated to it. Indicated, by whom? It is
as though a
heartless, proud
Fiend, assuming sudden authority, incarnate
Ambition and Power, had
clutched
with iron hand the minds of a whole country. By
what wicked
enchantment has he
brought the people back to those primeval days of
the nation when
their
ancestors, the yellow-haired Suevi, and the
treacherous Franks
roamed about in their warlike spirit, thirsting to
kill, to decimate
and
subject each other? By what infernal powers has
this been
accomplished? Yet the
transformation has been produced and it is as
undeniable as the fact
that alone
the Fiend rejoices and boasts of the
transformation effected. The
whole world is
hushed in breathless expectation. Not a wife or
mother, but is
haunted in her
dreams by the black and ominous storm-cloud that
overhangs the whole
of Europe.
The cloud is approaching. . . . . .It comes nearer
and nearer Oh woe
and horror!
I foresee once more for earth the suffering I have
already
witnessed. I read the
fatal destiny upon the brow of the flower of
Europe's youth. . . .

---------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------\
-----------------

Below are some links to informative articles on
Hitler and related
subjects.

Adolf Hitler
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

Nazism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi

Nazi Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany

Racial policy of Nazi Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_policy_of_Nazi_Germany


Holocaust
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

Extermination camps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp

Auschwitz concentration camp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp#Criticisms

Nuremberg Trials
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials

Holocaust denial
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

Jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews


Anti-Semitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism

Neo-Nazism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism

Daniel



Daniel H. Caldwell
BLAVATSKY STUDY CENTER/BLAVATSKY ARCHIVES
http://blavatskyarchives.com/introduction.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------
"...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate
things at
their right value; and unless a judge compares
notes and
hears both sides he can hardly come to a correct
decision."
H.P. Blavatsky. The Theosophist, July, 1881, p. 2
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