Theos-Talk Archives (February 2005 Message tt00164)

Feb 7 2005

Jerry:

Help:

I seek to think of the SOURCE of any concept of "self" -- Higher or lower.


The great puzzle is : From the abyss, void, be-ness, eternal "background,"
Anatma (?) how does anything arise which has some limited or concrete basis
?

Where does THOUGHT arise? How is it framed formulated and used ?

If we can visualize or reason back from our present limited perception of
condition to an "infinite," -- a causeless cause (?), then why is it so
difficult to reason out of the infinite to the finite? 

So all is Maya except MAYA ? Then is "MAYA" the ONE SELF ? 

And if so, non-maya is what?

Confused, 

Dallas

=====================
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald 
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 9:25 PM
To: 
Subject: RE: Creation, LOGIC, MATHEMATICS



<< Apparently the one who uses "logic" or any other honestly responsive
process
must have a wider perspective than any selected process.>>

Yes indeed. The process or flow of logic is a tool for us to use. A model
or scheme of reality needs to be logical within its given assumptions.
Exoteric Theosophy uses the reincarnation model that assumes the existence
of an evolving self. But there is no logical answer to the question of how
it all started or why we go through it just to end up right where we
started. 


<< Who or what is THAT ? I mean the Chooser or the Selector ? >>

Dal, you are still grasping onto the concept of a self. Let it go and see
what happens. There remains the skandhas that constitute our body and mind
and spirit. These have a conditional reality. They are not permanent
because they change in dependence on varying causes and conditions, but
they do exist. But the self is an imputation based on these skandhas and
does not exist even conditionally. It has only an imputational reality to
it. This is easy to see with the body. We say "my body this" and "my body
that" as if such a thing as a physical body existed. But it does not exist
as a thing-in-itself. We cannot point to it anywhere. We observe a
collection of parts like arms, hands, legs, head, and so on, and then we
impute a body onto the whole aggregate or collection of parts and then
think that our imputation is real when it is not. Delete your physical body
as a thing-in-itself and what happens? You still have hands and feet and
so on, and they still function together as a team, but now you will see
conditional reality instead of imputational reality and will be one big
step along the road to seeing what is really going on. Delete all of your
imputations, including the self, and then you will see conditional reality
as it really is. 


<< How are the process we call: "logic" ( as Mental honesty and
consecutiveness ), "mathematics" ( as numerical, measurement, spatial,
dimensional, spatial,
abstract, concrete, etc... ) and "imagination' (the image building process,
from empiricism and selection to conclusions based on (desire, wish,
inclination, rigid exactitude, etc... -- make you own selection -- ) to be
considered and used ? >>

Considered and used for what goal? Why would removing imputational reality
and seeing the conditional reality behind it change any of these?


<< Do they enter into this search ? >>

???? I don't understand your question.


<< I see "creation" and "Parabrahm" mentioned -- which are basics and
fundamentals if we agree on their universality and impersonality. >>

Universal in the sense of throughout our solar universe, yes. But
Parabrahman is not Beness and is not nondual. On the other hand it is not
karmic manifestation as such either, and this is exactly why it needs the
10-plane model in order to do it justice.


<< But how do we arrive with surety to those ultimates?
Best wishes
Dallas >>

Exactly the same way that we arrive with surety to any ultimates.
  
Jerry S.