Theos-Talk Archives (January 2005 Message tt00931)

Jan 26 2005

Dear Neil:

Welcome and thanks for joining and participating.

You write:

"In part One of "The Esoteric Character of the Gospels," H.P.B. writes: [
HPB Articles, III, pp. 168-9 ]

"the true esoteric SAVIOR -- is no man, but the DIVINE PRINCIPLE in every
human being. He who strives to resurrect the Spirit crucified in him by his
own terrestrial passions, and buried deep in the "sepulcher" of his sinful
flesh; he who has the strength to roll back the stone of matter from the
door of his own inner sanctuary, he has the risen Christ in him."


I take this to mean that our carnal passions and desires have crucified our
divine nature, our true self, so that it is subdued and imprisoned deep
within
us.  

Our mission in life should be to resurrect this divine nature, the Christ
within, by completely putting to death our passions and desires.  

This involves putting away all forms of greed, selfishness, covetousness,
sexual lusts, hatred, etc. and striving to be kind, generous, compassionate,
tolerant, loving, and self-controlled, even in the face of suffering and
persecution.  

If we are able to do this, we will not have to be reincarnated anymore.  

Is this a fair assessment of what H.P.B. is getting at in her above
statement? This is all new to me and I need to make sure I'm understanding
correctly. 

Thanks a lot."

--------------------------

What you write is indeed a fair assessment of HPB's meaning.


By the way -- have you read HPB's The KEY TO THEOSOPHY (300 pp.) or Mr
Judge's The OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY (180 pp. )?  

They both give you a survey of what THEOSOPHY teaches in case you desire to
know the technical, doctrinal and supportive aspects of Theosophical
philosophy -- which I would recommend your doing.  

The 2 books are available "on line" (see below) for reading or
"down-loading." The "OCEAN" gives also a synopsis of the doctrines covered
in the SECRET DOCTRINE.   

A short presentation of THEOSOPHY will be found in Judge's The EPITOME OF
THEOSOPHY (50 pp.). 

----------------

May I offer in addition to your good comments -- to think about:

The True Man in each of us is a Christ, a Spiritual Self [A true Son of
God].  

It is immortal. Its presence on "earth" (in our 'flesh') occurs under the
general Laws of "karma and reincarnation." [Bodies die, but the essential
Spiritual Self reincarnates in the continued company of other Immortals all
similar to itself. Unfinished business -- a residuum from past life (and
lives) remains to be settled, thus demanding the "return" of the Spiritual
Self -- sometimes called the Ego -- [the Divine MIND.] 

Its self-assumed mission originally (and it remains so today), is to help
many maturing intelligences (called "Lives" or "Monads") to advance in
intelligence and capacity -- helped by the assistance of such a wise
intelligence as the "Christ within" is. These are considered to be a host
(army ?) of "younger brothers" -- and they make up what is called, in
general, "the flesh."   

But it is well to note that they are beginners on the scale of intelligence
that leads to the independence of "manhood." And being "young in experience"
they are unruly. So the first task is to educate and show the paths of true
and ever-continuing life (and its self-improving disciplines) are to them.
This is where we as "embodied Christs" are involved as "tutors.-" We can
advise but not compel. It is this, the "lower mind" in us, to which our
"desires and passions" attach themselves, it is this combination that needs
to be shown (by the higher mind -- the wise-mind), that self-discipline in
virtue is its most important self-regulated improvement. This bring
immortality to it. In brief: it is brotherhood that needs to be practised
in and at all times. 

Unfortunately, when this "descent into flesh" occurs, the influence of the
"flesh" tends to obscure the memory of the mission of many such "Spiritual
Selves." They too, have to go through this process to consolidate their own
Immortality -- so this process does several things. 

The impact of the material "flesh" that now is the habitat for a while of
the Spiritual Self, is frustrating, yet, a necessary part of the onward urge
of nature to assure not only Mind-based self-consciousness but also a very
real independence to those "Lives / Monads". 

When the "flesh" is spoken of, it includes the desires of a selfish and
limiting quality -- so widely prevalent today -- the reverse of virtue:
vices and sins.

The real struggle then, is always internal. And it runs between the "desire
nature," (the 'lower self') and the "god within" [the crucified Christ].
Our bodies and personalities are now as his personal environment the
"flesh." The most prominent antagonism is found to be generated by the
independent but unruly "lower-desire-nature" that overwhelms reason and the
higher virtues, so frequently. 

This is precisely the area of all psychological conflict: it is based on
the fact that we all live in a single Universe of Law [call it God's
omnipresence. omniscience, and omnipotence -- all three in one] -- which is
highly sensitive to any and all moral and ethical / virtuous distortions --
that may impinge and infringe on the rights and privileges of the least of
creatures -- this is going down to the 'sub-atomic' level [if you will
allow it] of (to us) minute forces and powers, yet, those are areas where
Universal Intelligence also reigns -- and expanding outward, we can see our
mental vision embracing the largest and grandest of spatial areas. All are
included in this, as a plenum dedicated to the spiritualizing of NATURE as a
whole. This the grand and first "cause" of all existence, philosophically.

The purpose may be also be expressed: spiritualizing the perception of
every living thing so that its individual life-purpose and immortality are
brought under its own conscious guidance. The purpose is to urge it to
control its own conscious awareness of the actual and inerradicable
brotherhood of all beings. 

The need for reincarnation then ceases, as the "pupils" have become
themselves "teachers." The onward progress of each "Christ / Monad" may
then be surmised as a voluntary continuation of such efforts, endlessly
pursued for the benefit of "all that lives." We have as such been at this a
very long time.

If you are interested in this age-old doctrine, then you will find that the
ancient BHAGAVAD GITA deals carefully and fully with the on-going conflict
between the "selfish isolating Personality" and the Universalizing Spiritual
Christ within.    

The VOICE OF THE SILENCE (H P B) deals with the aspiration and program of
self-enlightenment that all pupil monads adopt voluntarily to achieve
control of their "lower brother-self" and assist it to Buddhahood. 

---------------------

Thanks for joining us and writing to introduce yourself.  

Consider your views very welcome.

We are all students and inquirers, and interested in the exchange of ideas.
One might say we are perennial students, and also, trying to learn what
THEOSOPHY can teach.

We all feel that in this vast Universe, we have a lot to learn, and are
learning new things every day.  

Nature (the Universe) has been here a long time and long before our present
incarnation. It has set down by early and continued experience, the rules
and regulations for the progress of every being aeons ago. It in a way is
like a tender Mother that cares with infinite attention the needs of its
enormous brood of "children" of all ages and climes. We have, here and now,
those to help and guide into their own budding independence -- they and we
-- are together forging a bridge to a real brotherhood with all else. 

There are no finalities, but, hopefully with each other’s help, we can
assist one another to obtain an ever-focused sharpening of understanding.  

Here is one aspect of thought:

May we assume that you have visited this Theosophy Study Discussion List
because you hope that there may be answers from students of Theosophy which
you could compare with the study and thesis you may have already set up.

When we begin to consciously think of how we fit in and are part of the
Whole, we can come to understand that we are powerful spiritual beings
having a human (the 'flesh') experience that needs to be recognized and
taken control of.
 	
Here is one way of looking at things : 

The present day Scientist and Theosophical students – and we are all
students -- study the information provided (our environment in the world
and Universe) and then we compare our understanding of them.

Our “Science” tries to explain by hypothesis and theories what may havebeen
the “past” of present day observations (of course limited by the
availability of artifacts and relics, and their present knowledge of the
LAWS, so far detected and observed to be operating, in many correlated
departments of Nature).

No one will dispute facts. One proviso in this work of scientific discovery
and identification is the one of extreme honesty – no secrets, no hiding --
so that all facts and discoveries (anomalies especially) are to be made
available for all to see and draw conclusions about. 
 
I believe it will prove difficult (but ought to be initiated), as the
fundamental Theosophical approach is: that it, Theosophy, is a very ancient
system of continued Scientific research and observation in all departments
of Nature, and of the world religions, philosophies, and also this
observation and recording in old as well as modern Sciences, are derived
from it.  

As an example, in H P B’s “The SECRET DOCTRINE” you will find it stated that
the doctrines discussed have an antiquity going back some at least 18
million years.  

HPB states those are actually physically in the possession of the “Masters
of Wisdom.” [ S D I 272-3 ] That exceeds by a great many years, and
cycles of years, any concept of time that the research done by organized
Science in the past 300 years -- (I mean, since “Orientalism,” began with
the scientists that Napoleon 1 had accompany him to Egypt in the very early
19th century.)

It is of course very annoying to some to find that the ancients (India,
China,
Tibet, Mongolia, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Iran, the Incas and Mayans, etc…) had
made discoveries and had observed the movement of the stars for millennia
before our present “discoveries.” In many cases we (our Science)
corroborates those, and in some we have disagreement.   

The main point and attitude we, as investigators and Scientists, ought to
always adopt ought to be: Lets verify. Let’s freely admit that we have
discovered evidence that shows antiquity, in many parts of the world, had
processes and used materials they were able to manufacture for which we have
yet to discover the secrets. 

There is no “shame” in this, but any claims to novelty disappear in the
rightful process of verification. 
 
Theosophical sources are the writings of Mme. Blavatsky: books and
articles, most of which can be studied and understood by anyone.. Also, to
some extent, they have to be individually supplemented with first hand
observation and inquiries over years. 
 
Neither you, nor we (as students of Theosophy), are the final arbiters in
this. We do make comparisons. Some we understand and others we do not. We
are continually learning, all of us.  

But, as I understand it, it is facts that we are looking for, as well as,
the supporting of mental acuity and freedom of thought.  

Those who worship at the shrine of TRUTH and FACT are contemptuous of no
source of information, nor of any anomalies, or of contemporary or earlier
work done by any one. We seek for traces of similarity, of analogy, or
correspondence.  

Look through ISIS UNVEILED, (by HPB) if you wish to see what facts and
events are brought forward for consideration there. It tends to point to
important evens and anomalies that the Science of her days (and now, still)
need to verify. On publication, ISIS UNVEILED created a sensation, and in a
week all copies of the book were sold. It has been kept in print since
then.  

Eleven years later The SECRET DOCTRINE was issued;. There you have a
synopsis and review of the Occult records of the history of our Earth’s
formation and the evolution of mankind. These are meticulously contrasted
with Science and its theories as known and taught in her time of writing.
Some of those are still maintained. In many cases, and most often in terms
of cycles and time–periods, the SECRET DOCTRINE does not agree with the
current theories and hypotheses of modern Orientalism and Science. But that
does not make them wrong, or extraordinarily fanciful, or suspect. [see S D
II, pp. 78-80]
 
We (as students of Theosophy) take the position that NATURE (or Deity)
already contains everything. It is Nature as a fully conscious and
intelligent lawful ENTITY of enormous size – which, as a whole, supports
every detail of our needs (as well as those of all other beings in
existence). It gives us, not only our “life,” but that of all ‘beings’ that
make up our total environment. Law and Laws alone govern every aspect of
being and manifestation. Our Science studies those. 

NATURE is the Universal Shrine Of Our Common Worship. Its organization
ranges through seven stages between the limits of INFINITY and NOUGHT. It is
a calculus made living and perfectly obvious to the seeker.

All living beings, of whatever kind, are supported by the united processes
of laws that Nature has already in place. [ Chemistry, physics, mathematics,
astronomy, biology, medicine, sociology, linguistics, politics, history,
paleography, philosophy, theology, etc… are as old as thinking man -- a
period said to comprise at least 18 million years. [see S D I, p. 150
footnote]  

All the discoveries of Science are simply the revealing and verifying of
what is already there laid down and operating under Nature’s control and
supervision. There is no “novelty” only DISCOVERY, and verification of
facts observed.
 
I try to cover a number of inter-related disciplines, since it is evident
that Nature has interlocking and cohesive systems in place. For example, on
careful examination I believe we might say:  

Nature (taken as a whole) appears to be infinitely sensitive and responsive
to the needs of the individual components of its many systems. One can see
order and precision in the motions, and influence surrounding an atom, a
crystal, an element or a chemical compound, a plant, an animal, a man, a
mathematical equation, or a chemical, physical or astronomical problem --
or take the remarkable advance in astro-physics and look at a Solar System
and the large number of interacting Galaxies that the use of the Hubble
telescope has revealed in all directions.  

Is the Universe in fact an enormous SUN ? Are we bathed (as unit parts of
its inhabitants) with a constant stream of the most varied radiations? 

We live on Earth, but our “heads” are in those far stars. Are we then to
limit and sequester our knowledge?  

What roads of endeavour lead to WISDOM ?
 
Law and Laws are found to rule everywhere. Science depends on the honesty
and accuracy of Nature in all its works near and far. Science makes its
declarations based on the facts it discovers. It chooses NATURE as the
final authority. It says that any discovery can be replicated and
demonstrated by any one else. It is the universality of facts that is
valuable, and not the individual opinions of the discoverers.  
 
In the orient, the oldest texts were transmitted verbally with great control
over sound and inflection because (and I have tapes that demonstrate this)
concealed in the sound were some of the “codes” whereby secret knowledge was
transmitted. The superficial sounds in ancient verses were made to present
a coherency that served as a kind of “blind” which diverted and deflected
the attention of a newcomer or a non-initiate.
 
There are certain euphonic similarities which, studied in terms of actual
linguistic distribution (present and past) are said to have a relationship. 
It remains to find out what is correct. [ see SECRET DOCTRINE (on language
and codes): I, pp. 269, 307-25, 362, 568; II, pp, 198-201, 334-5, 364,
560, ]
 
Again, neither of us are either right or wrong, but we seek to find out
where the greater accuracy is. Your research and mine may overlap in
places, but they are not invariably coincident, and certainly neither of us
can assume that their position and our particular observations are
necessarily final, and the statements made by the other are idiotic. 

And as I understand it, in a life time of dealing with experts in all
departments of Scientific research, prejudice is usually careless of the
findings of other disciplines, unless the researcher has a rare and
inquisitive (even intuitive) nature and is determined to find the TRUTH by
any and every means, and accept no conclusions unless they are proven to
general satisfaction. We accept nothing and reject nothing. The future will
teach this.  

[Incidentally, you will find a full range of Theosophical literature “on
line” at 


PHOENIX  ULT             	www.phx-ult-lodge.org/


    Books "on line" and for downloading

SECRET DOCTRINE -- HPB
ISIS UNVEILED -- HPB
The VOICE OF THE SILENCE -- HPB
LIGHT ON THE PATH 
A MODERN PANARION  ( H P B )
FIVE YEARS OF THEOSOPHY 
        TRANSACTIONS OF THE BLAVATSKY LODGE  ( H P B )
KEY TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) & GLOSSARY (H P B)
        THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY (H P B)
        The FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER (Robert Crosbie)
        ETERNAL VERITIES  (Robert Crosbie)
       	ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS AT AN INFORMAL "OCEAN 
" CLASS (R C)
        POINT OUT THE WAY [Answers to Questions at an 
"Ocean" Class (J G)
        BHAGAVAD GITA  and  BHAGAVAD GITA NOTES 	
(Judge)
        ECHOES FROM THE ORIENT (Judge)
        EPITOME OF THEOSOPHY (Judge)
       	OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY  (Judge)
        PATANJALI'S YOGA SUTRAS (Judge)
        LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME  ( W Q Judge )
       	THEOSOPHICAL FORUM -- ANSWERS BY  (W Q Judge)
        THE DHAMMAPADA  ( Footfalls of the Law ) 
(Gautama Buddha)
THE LIGHT OF ASIA  (Gautama Buddha - life & teachings)
       	THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT (1875 - 1950)  History

------------------------------------

We, the entire Universe, ever pursues a common and conjoint path of
discovery, so while recording facts and events, our final conclusions ever
ride along with us, and have to remain as flexible hypotheses  -- they help
us understand until they for lack of finality, break-down and have to be
reframed. The general plan is there all right, but as we all progress
through time and events, we reframe the conclusions (Karma) we will have to
meet in the future. 

There is no “stasis” (except some assumed ones) anywhere. What are those?

1	the UNIVERSE exists. (On many planes of substance and sensitivity)

2	we as OBSERVERS exist – we are immortals as no beginning or end to
our work seems logical. Bodies wear out and die, but Karma provides us with
new ones, and so one and on… (we, as Essential Beings, are not physical nor
mental, but of some kind of SPIRITUAL SUBSTANCE that survives the continual
“ravages of change,” in its correlates of time, and alterations in space.
 
3.	the ongoing relations between the UNIVERSE and OURSELVES are an
essential part of this timeless and limitless REALITY. In the SECRET
DOCTRINE they are said to be seven-fold [ see S D I, 157-8; II, 296 ].
 
I hope this will help,

Best wishes, 


Dallas

===================

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil D
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 10:05 AM
To: 
Subject: [bn-study] Resurrecting the Christ within

Hello Everyone,

My name is Neil Davis and I'm new to this group. I'm
trying to understand the basic concepts of theosophy,
so, if you will, please try to bear with me.

In part one of "The Esoteric Character of the
Gospels," H.P.B. writes:

"the true esoteric SAVIOR -- is no man, but the DIVINE
PRINCIPLE in every human being. He who strives to
resurrect the Spirit crucified in him by his own
terrestrial passions, and buried deep in the
"sepulcher" of his sinful flesh; he who has the
strength to roll back the stone of matter from the
door of his own inner sanctuary, he has the risen
Christ in him."

I take this to mean that our carnal passions and
desires have crucified our divine nature, our true
self, so that it is subdued and imprisoned deep within
us. Our mission in life should be to resurrect this
divine nature, the Christ within, by completely
putting to death our passions and desires. This
involves putting away all forms of greed, selfishness,
covetousness, sexual lusts, hatred, etc. and striving
to be kind, generous, compassionate, tolerant, loving,
and self-controlled, even in the face of suffering and
persecution. If we are able to do this, we will not
have to be reincarnated anymore.  

Is this a fair assessment of what H.P.B. is getting at
in her above statement? This is all new to me and I
need to make sure I'm understanding correctly. Thanks
a lot.

Regards,

Neil  


		
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