Theos-Talk Archives (January 2005 Message tt00920)

Pedro among other things wrote: 
"But would it also make these three independent investigators equally
deluded? Would the hundreds of people they helped to regain health and
balance, over many years, be also deluded, diagnosed as they were by
clairvoyant means?

IMHO, siddhis are siddhis, whenever they occur.
They´re all subject to the same consistencies and inconsistencies of individual interpretations, since, as you know, they are under human machine-dependent.
The question in general is not to deny many observations made by the authors but the statement that CWL´s teachings had strong contraditions in comparison with the writings of HPB and the masters.
Cass for example showed us her impressions about the death after states missunderstandings.
Many like her can pass the entire life believing in this romantic view of the devachan or the after-death states, just like the spiritists do. And if this visions come from a theoeophist, something is wrong and inconsistent.
John Edwards, a rough example of psychicism popularity, proclaims the sameromanticized conditions of the jorney of the soul.
CWL is not definitely the best guide to learn Theosophy from, but a mere secondary source to compare interpretations and researches. IMHO of course.

Krishtar



----- Original Message ----- 
From: prmoliveira 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:32 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re: Did Leadbeater suffer from the DELUSIONS OF ISOLATION?




--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel H. Caldwell"
<danielhcaldwell@y...> wrote:


> But the method as described by Blavatsky is a collorabative effort of 
> comparing, contrasting and checking.
> 
> Is Pedro suggesting that Leadbeater did his studies on his
> own and without consultation with the Adepts Morya, Koot Hoomi and 
> others?
> 
> If so, then Leadbeater would be in the same boat as Swedenborg:
> 
> =================================================
> From Swedenborg onwards there have been many
> seers who profess to gather their knowledge
> of other worlds from actual observation, but
> such persons are isolated, and subject to
> the DELUSIONS OF ISOLATION.
> ===============================================
> caps added
> 
> In other words, did Leadbeater suffer from the DELUSIONS OF ISOLATION?



I suppose that because they were isolated geographically, even when
Geoffrey Hodson (New Zealand), Phoebe Bendit (England) and Dora Kunz
(USA) checked and confirmed, with their own investigations,
Leadbeater's basic descriptions of auric fields, including the etheric
double, INDEPENDENTLY OF HIM, that would still make of his
clairvoyance, according to the suggested criterion, a "delusion of
isolation" since they were not together, physically, while conducting
their investigations.

But would it also make these three independent investigators equally
deluded? Would the hundreds of people they helped to regain health and
balance, over many years, be also deluded, diagnosed as they were by
clairvoyant means?

The quote from the SD (vol.1) seems to refer to Adepts and not to mere
clairvoyants:

"The Secret Doctrine is the accumulated Wisdom of the Ages, and its
cosmogony alone is the most stupendous and elaborate system: e.g.,
even in the exotericism of the Purânas. But such is the mysterious
power of Occult symbolism, that the facts which have actually occupied
countless generations of initiated seers and prophets to marshal, to
set down and explain, in the bewildering series of evolutionary
progress, are all recorded on a few pages of geometrical signs and
glyphs. The flashing gaze of those seers has penetrated into the very
kernel of matter, and recorded the soul of things there, where an
ordinary profane, however learned, would have perceived but the
external work of form. But modern science believes not in the "soul
of things," and hence will reject the whole system of ancient
cosmogony. It is useless to say that the system in question is no
fancy of one or several isolated individuals. That it is the
uninterrupted record covering thousands of generations of Seers whose
respective experiences were made to test and to verify the traditions
passed orally by one early race to another, of the teachings of higher
and exalted beings, who watched over the childhood of Humanity. That
for long ages, the "Wise Men" of the Fifth Race, of the stock saved
and rescued from the last cataclysm and shifting of continents, had
passed their lives in learning, not teaching. How did they do so? It
is answered: by checking, testing, and verifying in every department
of nature the traditions of old by the independent visions of great
adepts; i.e., men who have developed and perfected their physical,
mental, psychic, and spiritual organisations to the utmost possible
degree. No vision of one adept was accepted till it was checked and
confirmed by the visions-so obtained as to stand as independent
evidence-of other adepts, and by centuries of experiences."

Did Leadbeater ever claim he was an Adept? 


Pedro
     





   
Yahoo! Groups Links



   





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]