Theos-Talk Archives (January 2005 Message tt00301)

Dear Sufi and Bart
Just one more thing to add to this discussion.
 
In non-violent sex abuse cases, the abused, as a natural process of stimulation,can feel sexually aroused, sadly what this does in many, if not all cases, is to cause the victim to feel a certain sense of responsibility for the act (the pleasure that sexual arousal causes in the body). This in turn leads to psychological guilt for the pleasure experienced. e.g. If I enjoyed it, then I am partly to blame and certainly guilty of it.
 
I have also heard the excuse made that child abusers are not able to distinguish between filial and sexual love for the child and blurr the lines between filial and sexual love. Either, because it happened to them as children or they have brought it with them from a past life.  
 
If you look at Karma, you could say, that the victim was either an abuser in a past life, and Karma has brought to bear it's results. So, as a victim in this life or a past life, the choice is theirs (the victim who is now the victimiser) to end the cycle of abuse by not perpetrating acts on others that were perpetrated on them, in this or other lives.  
 
The same principle, I would imagine, can be applied to rape victims, victims of physical abuse, victims of psychological abuse etc, etc. But try explaining that to a person who has no belief in reincarnation and you are leftwith a person who is psychologically damaged by not understanding "why" ithappened to them when they in some cases did nothing to warrant the action.    
 
This is especially the case in children, who only seek to please the adult role model in their lives. They are left with not only psychological guiltbut also spiritual guilt. CWL was the cause of, not only psychological guilt that his victims will carry with them all this life and probably more tocome, this spiritual guilt, for their part in an act that they had been told was to be controlled as an unnatural act.
 
Regarding your statement the act being helpful, I cannot follow your reasoning. If you can expand on this I will certainly take a look at it, and it may help me reach some sort of understanding of the Abuser.
 
And my question to the group, which has fallen on deaf ears, "why didnt the Master's recognise this pollution in Leadbeaters aura and disassociate him from the TS"? This is a genuine question, I am not out to denounce the Masters, but it is very puzzling to me how perfected men did not prevent this imperfection from flourishing. They must have been aware of the damage it would cause, not only to souls, but to the new society, (the TS and subsequently the new world order) that was to be established, to help mankind to evolve, if only to Plato's standard, Q "what does it take to be moral" A."Be good at being a man".
 
As far as CWL's compassion, I believe he used the TS as a means to gratify his sexual and power perversions. I am not evolved enough to forgive this,although I do not think CWL is looking for my or anyone's forgiveness. Bythe continuation and lack of remorse over these acts, I believe he was mocking not only the Masters but all of us who got sucked into his devotion tothe cause.
 
Horrible subject, horrible man.
Regards
Cass
 
 
 
"M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:

Hallo Cass and all,

My views are:

Cass wrote:
"I define child abuse as an adult male masturbating prepubescent boys on the 
grounds that it was better for their spiritual development."

My view:
I can agree upon that - when the child later honestly expresses that it felt 
it to be wrong.
I say this, because as far as I know - it is so that certain persons has a 
strange set-up
in the aura where such an activitiy could be helpful. But it is almost never 
helpful to do what CWL admitted he had done (according to known online 
documents on the Internet) even in these days.

Well allright.
I will add: I just know, that I will not claim that CWL hasn't damaged the 
Theosophical cause because of his activities. I think I and others easily 
can live without CWL's books and the atmosphere surrounding them because of 
his activities while promoting honest
and compassionate Theosophy to the theosophical beginners or beginner 
Seekers.
Well compassionate is compassionate.

(To Bart: I have noted you reply on the issue. And I agree with Cass' later 
reply.)


from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cass Silva" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Christianity or not...


>
> Dear Sufilight
> I define child abuse as an adult male masturbating prepubescent boys on 
> the grounds that it was better for their spiritual development. I believe 
> that CWL distorted the truth to suit his own sexual gratification. Not 
> only was he a pervert but he was a hypocrite, and if he distorted the 
> truth at this level, god only knows what distortion arose from his 
> clairvoyance? Wasn't he the founder of a liberal religious organization, 
> probably like all the historical popes, Pope Leo 10th's amusement was for 
> 5-6 year old naked boys to jump out of a cake, at the same time he was 
> offering "indulgences to heaven" to the sinners, so that they could either 
> buy their family or themselves out of 1000 years of purgatory. And this 
> was only one of the Popes of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
> Cass
>
> "M. Sufilight" wrote:
>
> Hallo Bart and all,
>
> My views are:
>
> Not I am not saying that it happened although there are documented 
> evidence,
> which leads one to that conclusion when one views it in a timeframe
> perspective. The question is also how do you define child abuse.
> What I am saying and pointing my fingers at is, that the promotion of 
> CWL's
> name
> within and outside of theosophical circles is something, which is highly
> questionable
> to do when we talk about promoting real and honest theosophy with wisdom 
> and
> heart.
>
> Do you support CWL being promoted Bart?
>
>
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bart Lidofsky"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 9:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Christianity or not...
>
>
>>
>> M. Sufilight wrote:
>>> Well Bart I think I referred on how to promote Theosophy?
>>> My question is simple: Is it being done by having any kind of support 
>>> for
>>> CWL ?
>>>
>>> Try for instance to reread the links in the email I posted 09-01-2005 
>>> at:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/20822
>>
>> I have. You include reliable reports that Leadbeater taught young men
>> how to masturbate, and talked about priests who have sex with young boys
>> and how they should be punished. What does this have to do with
>> Leadbeater's teachings? Are you saying that teaching young men how to
>> masturbate is child abuse?
>>
>> Bart
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
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